Large Scale PvP Classes and You

[Disrep]

Hello friends. I've been seeing far too many people who are new competitive large scale pvp and how it works. Before anyone can teach you how to play, the basic thing you must know is what classes are acceptable. Again I want to stress, this is for large scale as in 30+ people. Other classes not listed here may work as a niche 1v1 or a small scale class, but will not be as effective. Common classes that people may be confused on why they can't be played large scale will be listed and explained.

There is a meta in Archeage whether you like it or not. Top guilds on legacy servers used these classes for a reason, it isn't just a made up thing. Classes that become viable in 3.0+ will be listed, but I will not go in depth due to the fact that the current patch is 2.9. If you would like a skill build on any of these classes, shoot me a pm and I will do my best to help out. I will try to break down what stage of the game these classes are best used, which will be early game, mid game, late game, and super late game.

Note- these are averages, when you get into late game everyone is gonna be geared differently because of gems and weapon choices.

Early game: 0- 4K gs
Mid game: 4K-5.5k
Late game:5.5k- 6.2k
Super late game:6.2k+



Mage

Revenant
Early/Mid/Late
- The bread and butter of large scale pvp. Mage ball is the dominate meta because of this class here. Amazing mix of aoe damage and cc, with decent survivabilty due to auramancy. An absolute must have for your raid comp. Falls off super late game because the chip damage from aoes aren't as effective due to high hp, toughness/resilience gems, and healers having strong odes.

Skullknight
Mid/Late/Super Late
-Skullknights aren't good early and a little bit mid game because they are heavily focused on cc. They don't do enough damage to need them in a ball early game. Revenant does their job much better till later on. Come late game this class is a must. Late game is more about cc and single target burst, so having skullknights to lock down an area is super important.

Nightcloak
Late/Super Late/ 3.0+
-Truthfully I haven't gotten to mess around with this class in the 2.9 patch, but I imagine it's not terrible at the moment. It's a late game class because you need to be very tanky to pull it off. Your role is a bit different than sks, so if you aren't tanky, you will just get focused down and die instantly. 3.5 these things are monsters with access to both abyssal and successor skills. Crazy cc and mobility if played correctly.

Spellsinger/Spellsong
Late/Super Late
-Just because you can hit one person with a 20k arc lightning early/mid game doesn't mean it's better than a revenant. Spellsingers and spellsongs are late game+ classes because to make it more useful than a revenant you need gear. Not just a weapon, you need cast time, arc lightning gems, and good crit damage/crit chance to be more effective. Super late game these things are a must because the only way you're gonna kill a 30k health skullknight/nightcloak or healers is with an arc lightning. Very squishy and imobile so you must have good positioning to play it.

Classes that don't work in large scale

Enigmatist
-Very fun class in small scale with a lot of mobility, but sucks in large scale because it's only mobility and burst. But even the burst is outshined by a rev because of crit passives. On top of this you have consistent cc and damage with a rev outside of your burst that you don't have as an enigmatist

Daggerspell
-It's a 1v1 cheese class and situationally a small scale class. Mixing damage and hard cc almost never works. Revenants are far superior if you want damage and cc.

Any other class that hasn't been listed is a very niche class or just doesn't work. Most things without auramancy in it aren't fit for large scale, or things with hybrid damage types like vitalism/sorc or something like that.

Healers

Cleric
All stages
-It's arguably the best healer class in the game for a reason. Good mobility, amazing aoe heals, especially with zeal up, good single heals, good everything. Only downside is you need a bit more peel if you don't know how to position.

Hierophant
All stages
-Underplayed but crazy good. Has so much flexibility with play styles. You can go mobility heavy or cc heavy without sacrificing any heals. Harder to play correctly because people often don't know how to balance cc and healing. Very good self peel and disruption.

Classes that don't work

Templar
-Oh boy. The biggest noob healer trap in the game. People play Templar because they want to either be a Tanky healer, or are tired of dying to dark runners so they feel they need to have defense to save themselves. You pick up defense essentially for two skills, redoubt and invincibly. Redoubt only helps you not be tripped, because any hit from behind and your redoubt does nothing. If you go invincible that's great you saved yourself, but your raid is now dying. A better alternative would be to play heirophant and use your fears to peel for yourself. Don't play this please

Caretaker
-The second noob trap. It's bad for similar reasons as Templar, but even worse because you don't have auramancy. Any healing class with defense isn't that good.

Soothsayer
-As much as you want to get fancy with it, soothsayer isn't a large scale healing class. It's only use is reviving people. It's required in the water, but that's it. If you want mobility and cc, just go heirophant. The damage from shadowplay isn't good at all and even if it was, mixing healing and damage isn't good. Remember just because it somehow works for you doesn't mean it's good.

Argent
-Similar reasons on why soothsayer isn't good. Mixing damage and heals makes you mediocre at both. It's not a healing class.

Healer is probably the hardest class to play well. If you're dying to darkrunners over and over, work on your positioning and try to anticipate when they will jump on you. Don't rely on defense to do the work for you.

Melee

Darkrunner
Early/Mid/Late
-Contrary to popular belief, darkrunners aren't as strong as you think especially once you start scaling into late game. They may have super high mobility and large burst, but when gems start really becoming a thing, getting into melee range becomes deadly. You can't kill a healer fast anymore because they have too many defenses stopping you from one shotting. Raid v raid darkrunner is not easy.

Hexwarden
Mid/Late/Super Late
-Another one of the few times mixing damage and cc is good. Almost the same damage as a darkrunner with the ability to control a ball, or peel for your healers. Much better alternative when scaling into late game.

Abolishers
Early/Mid
-Abolishers actually suck. They have use early/mid because their damage can keep up with the enemy, but they fall off really hard late game+. If you want to tank, skullknights do the job far better than abolishers. Battlerage has no use when combining defense and auramancy except to hit like a wet noodle.

Classes that don't work

Paladin
-See argent above, except this one is even worse. Biggest noob trap in the game. Don't play it.

Any other melee class is 3.0+ or just doesn't have a role in a raid.

Archery
-only good early game. They don't get good till 3.5 so you're a long way off.


Hope this gives some insight to newer players. If your favorite class isn't on here I'm sorry but that's just how the meta is. The key thing to remember is that just because it works for you or your small group of friends doesn't mean it's good.

 

[Aumdaydar]

I would like to contest that Soothsayer is a viable mass pvp healing build. It has so much more to offer than just reviving.

Here's my build i use. I will run down what everything is used for and how i play this build. (The best part of AA is that a build can be used multiple ways not just a single way you think people would play it.)

http://archeagedatabase.net/us/calc/490902

Now, rule number 1 when playing any healer class (where healing is your main skills) you don't want to focus on damage out of shadowplay but there is an exception. Here is the exception, when you are debuffing the enemy then it's acceptable. There is absolutely no better mobility spec for a healer than a soothsayer ( this is my opinion of course ). Between having freerunner / multiple teleports / dropback / stealth. The ability to chase an opponent down and knock them out of the sky is second to none, on top of being able to debuff run speed, healing done to the target, reduce attack speed + increasing cast time with mirrored light to immobilize so the rest of the raid can catch up to finish the job. You're a god on the battle field.

That's not the only purpose obviously, as mentioned before revival on the battlefield can save tons of time and often be the deciding factor between a wipe and victory. Using the auroria heartbound hood you have 2.5 cast time on revive and increasing cast time can take this down to an instant cast if done properly.

While i can say that not everyone plays the way i do, i can make the soothsayer a viable member of any team i'm on while offering overwhelming support. That's just my 2cents on the matter though for that class.

 

[Disrep]

I would like to contest that Soothsayer is a viable mass pvp healing build. It has so much more to offer than just reviving.

Here's my build i use. I will run down what everything is used for and how i play this build. (The best part of AA is that a build can be used multiple ways not just a single way you think people would play it.)

http://archeagedatabase.net/us/calc/490902

Now, rule number 1 when playing any healer class (where healing is your main skills) you don't want to focus on damage out of shadowplay but there is an exception. Here is the exception, when you are debuffing the enemy then it's acceptable. There is absolutely no better mobility spec for a healer than a soothsayer ( this is my opinion of course ). Between having freerunner / multiple teleports / dropback / stealth. The ability to chase an opponent down and knock them out of the sky is second to none, on top of being able to debuff run speed, healing done to the target, reduce attack speed + increasing cast time with mirrored light to immobilize so the rest of the raid can catch up to finish the job. You're a god on the battle field.

That's not the only purpose obviously, as mentioned before revival on the battlefield can save tons of time and often be the deciding factor between a wipe and victory. Using the auroria heartbound hood you have 2.5 cast time on revive and increasing cast time can take this down to an instant cast if done properly.

While i can say that not everyone plays the way i do, i can make the soothsayer a viable member of any team i'm on while offering overwhelming support. That's just my 2cents on the matter though for that class.

This goes back to what I said about just because it works for you doesn't mean it's massively viable. What you're trying to do is essentially be mobile, while having the ability to cc, debuff, and chase them down if I understand this correctly. You don't need shadowplay for that, and even if you did as a healer your job isn't to chase people down.

Heirophant has more than enough cc and lock down to do exactly what you're saying. Sure you don't have attack speed slows but you have hard cc to affect more than just a couple of people. Enervate is a stronger healing reduction than stalkers mark, you have two single target hard ccs, bubble and insidious whisper, an aoe fear, and an aoe knockback, as well as 2 purges for you or the enemy.

The only pro that you listed that would be better than heirophant is the attack speed slow and more mobility (I don't count revive). Everything else gets severely outclassed by heirophant

 

[Aumdaydar]

This goes back to what I said about just because it works for you doesn't mean it's massively viable. What you're trying to do is essentially be mobile, while having the ability to cc, debuff, and chase them down if I understand this correctly. You don't need shadowplay for that, and even if you did as a healer your job isn't to chase people down. Heirophant has more than enough cc and lock down to do exactly what you're saying. Sure you don't have attack speed slows but you have hard cc like fears and bubbles to effect more than just a couple of people.

The only pro that you listed that would be better than heirophant is the attack speed slow and more mobility (I don't count revive). Everything else gets severely outclassed by heirophant

So what you're saying is that bubble is useful in mass pvp, when most of everyone is using battle rage with tiger strike? I could see maybe using it as an interrupt, maybe.

I am curious to see what kind of Heiro build you would recommend. If you get the chance and wouldn't mind posting it i would be greatly appreciated.

In a mass pvp with so many skrimishes going on in all directions diversity is a key element in my opinion. Limiting your mobility leaves you a target and being dead doesn't help the raid or anyone who's a healer class. As a healer class you are number 1 target, regardless what anyone else says. A healer that sacrifices mobility for cc's is just asking to get dominated and spend more time at the nui than actually in the fight.

While yes, i can see your point about it not being the healer's job to chase down and cc / debuff. It's just a perk to the class while having the mobility to get you away from danger and out of combat in a flash.

I would really love to see your Hiero build though, one you think would work. Thanks for the great topic, i love learning new ways of doing things.

 

[Disrep]

So what you're saying is that bubble is useful in mass pvp, when most of everyone is using battle rage with tiger strike? I could see maybe using it as an interrupt, maybe.

I am curious to see what kind of Heiro build you would recommend. If you get the chance and wouldn't mind posting it i would be greatly appreciated.

In a mass pvp with so many skrimishes going on in all directions diversity is a key element in my opinion. Limiting your mobility leaves you a target and being dead doesn't help the raid or anyone who's a healer class. As a healer class you are number 1 target, regardless what anyone else says. A healer that sacrifices mobility for cc's is just asking to get dominated and spend more time at the nui than actually in the fight.

While yes, i can see your point about it not being the healer's job to chase down and cc / debuff. It's just a perk to the class while having the mobility to get you away from danger and out of combat in a flash.

I would really love to see your Hiero build though, one you think would work. Thanks for the great topic, i love learning new ways of doing things.

3.0 is when bubble gets broken with tiger strike, unless I remembered incorrectly. And if it is this patch, then I wouldn't use bubble on a darkrunner at all.

Mobility is very good, but having too much mobility isn't good either. With how large scale fights work, believe it or not 2 mobility spells are enough to survive. And if you run out of mobility, your cc and positioning comes into play.

I have two builds for heirophant because the situation might call for something different. Good thing about this class is that it's massively flexible and can be played in multiple different styles.

I normally get focused a lot, so my build is more focused on mobility which is this

http://archeagedatabase.net/us/calc/490905

 

[Effect]

It's just a perk to the class while having the mobility to get you away from danger and out of combat in a flash.

Let's imagine that you actually read the thread and knew this is about large scale pvp, because then this is perhaps one of the most far fetched reasons I've ever read about why Soothsayer is a good option.

If you get caught in CC(hint: you will - it's large scale, whoever wins the CC wins the fight) you're almost immediately dead, no amount of teleports or backdrops will help you.
The only thing that can help you as a caught healer is hoping that another healer is able to catch you.

Relying on mobility in the middle of a fight just means you're gonna be positioned unadvantagely. This is mage ball tactics 101, if you dont stay in the blob, you're dead(easy pickings for Darkrunners, whose job it is to pick out healers positioned exactly like this)

 

[Aumdaydar]

3.0 is when bubble gets broken with tiger strike, unless I remembered incorrectly. And if it is this patch, then I wouldn't use bubble on a darkrunner at all.

Mobility is very good, but having too much mobility isn't good either. With how large scale fights work, believe it or not 2 mobility spells are enough to survive. And if you run out of mobility, your cc and positioning comes into play.

I have two builds for heirophant because the situation might call for something different. Good thing about this class is that it's massively flexible and can be played in multiple different styles.

I normally get focused a lot, so my build is more focused on mobility which is this

http://archeagedatabase.net/us/calc/490905

thanks for the link, i'll give that build a shot later and check it out.

Let's imagine that you actually read the thread and knew this is about large scale pvp, because then this is perhaps one of the most far fetched reasons I've ever read about why Soothsayer is a good option.

Or maybe we could just assume that our definitions of "large scale pvp" differ, i've only ever been in 50 v 50's and focused hard by only a single DR at a time. Most of the time, i'm invis until a heal's needed as to not draw focus onto myself. Once i start healing i'm constantly moving, and healing until stealth is back up then i'm back in stealth again. While i'm doing my moving / healing i'm throwing debuffs around as i can. As far as this being "far fetched", is it common to play a class only a certain way or is it okay to play a class the way a person wants to play it? Very rarely do i ever die in 50v50 pvp. While that's prob not saying a "whole lot" - i am playing a healing class, that get's focused when noticed.

If you get caught in CC(hint: you will - it's large scale, whoever wins the CC wins the fight) you're almost immediately dead, no amount of teleports or backdrops will help you.
The only thing that can help you as a caught healer is hoping that another healer is able to catch you.

That goes for any class, so is that really relevant here in this discussion?

Relying on mobility in the middle of a fight just means you're gonna be positioned unadvantagely. This is mage ball tactics 101, if you dont stay in the blob, you're dead(easy pickings for Darkrunners, whose job it is to pick out healers positioned exactly like this)

This is where i believe we really disagree, if you don't think mobility is a good thing to have - get rid of it all on your class and see how long you enjoy the nui. Mobility is baseline for a lot of classes why should the healer be any exception? As far as being in the "Blob" DR's go for anyone that's positioned anywhere that can be focused by the opposing raid or one shot by the DR

As far as mass pvp'ing i've noticed it doesn't matter what your class / gear score / mobility settings - if you get targeted you're going to get wrecked, period and pretty much end of discussion. While yes mobility will get you out of some situations it's not nearly the end all to being able to actually "survive" being targeted by an entire raid.

Even being cc'd by a DR you wont get off any fear's / bubbles / waves as a heiro either, unless i'm missing something which is the whole point of me opening up a dialogue with Disrep, so they can help me understand better the class that they know more about than i do.

 

[Disrep]

thanks for the link, i'll give that build a shot later and check it out.




Or maybe we could just assume that our definitions of "large scale pvp" differ, i've only ever been in 50 v 50's and focused hard by only a single DR at a time. Most of the time, i'm invis until a heal's needed as to not draw focus onto myself. Once i start healing i'm constantly moving, and healing until stealth is back up then i'm back in stealth again. While i'm doing my moving / healing i'm throwing debuffs around as i can. As far as this being "far fetched", is it common to play a class only a certain way or is it okay to play a class the way a person wants to play it? Very rarely do i ever die in 50v50 pvp. While that's prob not saying a "whole lot" - i am playing a healing class, that get's focused when noticed.



That goes for any class, so is that really relevant here in this discussion?



This is where i believe we really disagree, if you don't think mobility is a good thing to have - get rid of it all on your class and see how long you enjoy the nui. Mobility is baseline for a lot of classes why should the healer be any exception? As far as being in the "Blob" DR's go for anyone that's positioned anywhere that can be focused by the opposing raid or one shot by the DR

As far as mass pvp'ing i've noticed it doesn't matter what your class / gear score / mobility settings - if you get targeted you're going to get wrecked, period and pretty much end of discussion. While yes mobility will get you out of some situations it's not nearly the end all to being able to actually "survive" being targeted by an entire raid.

Even being cc'd by a DR you wont get off any fear's / bubbles / waves as a heiro either, unless i'm missing something which is the whole point of me opening up a dialogue with Disrep, so they can help me understand better the class that they know more about than i do.

So the key thing about this is awareness. Heiro is so good as a self peel because if you have good awareness you won't get cced. Ive been able to dahutas breath someone away right before behind enemy lines hits me or fear them through sheer anticipation, which you can't really do as a sooth. Back drop is buggy where even if you do it in time you will still get hit, same with teleport and other skills.

 

[Jaxxyn]

Thanks Dirsep.

 

[Kathrann]

I do agree with your take on healers. Positioning is so important, and not easy to keep an eye on while also watching folks healthbars. Templars may stay alive, but I don't feel like I can actually heal in it, heal myself, sure, but nothing left for the raid. I run around in a Soothsayer build a lot, but don't like it for PvP. People are always trying to get me to go Templar or Sooth for PvP... I prefer Cleric. I've tried Heirophant, but am not as comfortable with it. I find I can also do a lot of rezzing as a Cleric, all through good positioning.

 

[Midas]

iirc it heavily depends on how many people you have and how organised you are when deciding builds. When I joined HPC from Aogiri (on Rangora?) we used Revenants+Spellsingers while mixing in a few Enigmatists because some players are just better suited for picking off others while your mageball destroys everything else. I think the main caller was a skullknight and I'm pretty sure we even had a caretaker or two. That guy was my always my key argument point for why I didn't wanna play what they told me to :') But we mostly ran Clerics afaik.

For anyone who's just starting AA I suggest levelling your main spec to 50 and then levelling your secondaries to 25-35(?), those being auramancy, witchcraft, defense possibly even shadowplay for kraken if that exists here (new btwbtwbtw).

Pro tip guild fights are boring so be a real player and 1v1 :^]

 

[Alinnior]

It's not tiger strike that breaks bubble in 3.0 it's behind enemy lines that breaks bubble petrify and telekinesis with those ccs taken out of bondbreaker's break/immunities

Edit: forgot quote because tired and am on mobile so to heck with fixing it

 

[hahakillmepls]

lets break the meta..

Tiger strike ball is the new meta


/s

 

[elyndora]

Revenant
Early/Mid/Late
- The bread and butter of large scale pvp. Mage ball is the dominate meta because of this class here. Amazing mix of aoe damage and cc, with decent survivabilty due to auramancy. An absolute must have for your raid comp. Falls off super late game because the chip damage from aoes aren't as effective due to high hp, toughness/resilience gems, and healers having strong odes.

Stupid question time. I've only played on this server, shit at pvp in general, but looking to improve and want to be useful in raids while playing mage. After trying things out for a bit over a month, I think I'm settled on Revenant and I'm ready to start gearing.

My question though - I'm in auroria plate with an obs staff atm. Not opposed to getting a shield/scepter as well - I don't need to get gear fast - but I'm wondering what the best goal would be for the class if one is mostly raiding/pve'ing. Cloth/staff, cloth/scepter+shield, plate/staff, or plate/scepter+shield? Is there a better combination to balance survivability and dps in obs gear?

 

[Disrep]

Stupid question time. I've only played on this server, shit at pvp in general, but looking to improve and want to be useful in raids while playing mage. After trying things out for a bit over a month, I think I'm settled on Revenant and I'm ready to start gearing.

My question though - I'm in auroria plate with an obs staff atm. Not opposed to getting a shield/scepter as well - I don't need to get gear fast - but I'm wondering what the best goal would be for the class if one is mostly raiding/pve'ing. Cloth/staff, cloth/scepter+shield, plate/staff, or plate/scepter+shield? Is there a better combination to balance survivability and dps in obs gear?

No matter what, mages should go cloth. There's no other alternative thats viable. Scepter shield is the best build path.

In terms of for pve and such, revenant isnt really a pve class. The game isn't that good when it comes to pve so any class honestly works there.

 

[hksekai]

2.9 auramancy tree makes it so you don't actually need to to cloth mage if you aren't playing cast time though. Obviously this will change when the next patch decides to roll in.

 

[elyndora]

No matter what, mages should go cloth. There's no other alternative thats viable. Scepter shield is the best build path.

That's what I was thinking for more endgame but wanted to be sure, as Rev seems to have a lot of skills that require them to be up in the face of whatever they're fighting. I'll switch it around then.

2.9 auramancy tree makes it so you don't actually need to to cloth mage if you aren't playing cast time though. Obviously this will change when the next patch decides to roll in.

See, that's why I was confused when I was reading up on weapons. It sucked dropping the cast time from cloth, but at the same time, a lot of the skills I'm using don't seem to require it. Good to know that changes for the next patch, tho, would rather have gear that'll last me.

 

[hksekai]

The problem with using Auroria plate is you will be out geared in 5k gs meta and you'll need to invest 2-3k in a mystic ward. The plus side is Auroria plate is great to mob farm so it's still a good investment.
Combine pre nerf shrug for 50% reduced magic damage and pre nerf conversion shield that doesn't reduce your received healing, mystic ward, purge (witch craft) and magic defense delph cloak and you'll have competitive magic defense without worry of anything but the most geared dark runners in open world.

 

[Disrep]

The problem with using Auroria plate is you will be out geared in 5k gs meta and you'll need to invest 2-3k in a mystic ward. The plus side is Auroria plate is great to mob farm so it's still a good investment.
Combine pre nerf shrug for 50% reduced magic damage and pre nerf conversion shield that doesn't reduce your received healing, mystic ward, purge (witch craft) and magic defense delph cloak and you'll have competitive magic defense without worry of anything but the most geared dark runners in open world.

While this is true, I want you to remember the purpose of this thread, which is large scale pvp. Its not just about magic defense, you get a significant damage boost by having a full cloth bonus.

The 5% carries alot. On top of this, having a celestial cloth set increase your crit chance as well as ignore physical/magical defense

Plate takes alot more investing to even make viable in the first place, while hitting soft cap Physical Def with cloth is no biggy.

 

[hksekai]

While this is true, I want you to remember the purpose of this thread, which is large scale pvp. Its not just about magic defense, you get a significant damage boost by having a full cloth bonus. Plate takes alot more investing to even make viable in the first place, while hitting soft cap Physical Def with cloth is no biggy.

Celestial cloth will give more mpen, crit, and the full cloth bonus reduces debuff durations by 30%. I agree cloth is generally safer for raids. I disagree that reaching soft cap for defense is easy, as you will need +2000 defense over cap just to deal with puncture. However, puncture isn't a big threat in large scale PvP which is the topic of this thread. I'm just discussing that in many scenarios going plate can still be viable but a mage should aim for a good cloth set by end game.