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5.0 trade changes what will happen?

Thriem

Active Member
@Sparkle I know there may be no way going forward in 5.0 to have larders, ferts, and normal packs be turned in for coal. It will be gold and new trade system will be over sea turn in for coal at 3 locations. I think this will hurt inland traders even more unless you boost the gold per pack or lower the mats required to make it better for new players/low gear/ or people that care bear. I know trade runs for gold on paper is still profitable but a lot already dont do inland trade runs for gold. I think boosting the gold per pack or decreasing mats will make this better keeping inland trade alive/viable for any player.

The plus side in doing this will be making cargo for the new system cheaper by lowering the % for steady inland trade. I think since we can not stop what is coming since we can no longer support the old system in 5.0 we can make the best of it by applying one or both of my proposed options. I also have a video by Foxfires regarding the 5.0 trade system. If you have not seen it give it a watch. I think that what she spoke about back then that turned out to be true will affect us now.

Please consider my proposal and "Make inland trade great again"

Thank you for your time =)https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...CBC4077D647851B42CE6CBC&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
 
The demand for charcoal has raised with it's addition to many crafts without reducing the amounts needed or amount gained, it's still rather tedious to run rokhala packs for ~80 charcoal each, if that's split into running multiple inland gold packs to sail one cargo for 15/30 coal it will become massive time/labor sink to try to run packs for coal and coal prices will go up high, as unless gold values for inland packs are significantly increased, the only reason to run them will be to create cargo for yourself to sail

the reason noone is running normal packs for gold is that it's big gold and labor sink rn, you are spending a lot of time to "lose gold" when compared to other readily available incomes like purses (even low gear can farm purses in peace and get better gold for their time then packs, not even talking about the exponential difference in gold/labor) or crafting (hell even illegal farm of baobabs might be comparable labor for less time) and the gold you invest is locked for 22h without reasonable interest (5% on normal is bad, 2% on cargo where u invest half the income is a joke)

3.0 trade system is crucial part of any "why is this server better then live" discussion especially since you guys refuse to adress the massive balance issues (I know you always say it's not worth since there's new patch, but guess what, there is always a new patch, even after new patch it's not hard to adjust for it and the new patch won't be coming for half a year)

if you are going to roll with the patch without making massive changes to these issues people won't have a good reason to play here, free patron and higher exp gain is not going to carry this server, people left their gear and land on live because they weren't happy with the state of the game, they will do the same here, many people are straight up refusing to play in this patch right now, paying taxes and waiting for better class balance and economy, what happens when it get even worse

you have a community here that is willing to put time and effort into helping you improve the game, all you need to do is to show that you are willing to do it and ask for ideas and data, you should use it before the remaining players lose interest in the server, as coming back from minimal population won't be possible
 
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The demand for charcoal has raised with it's addition to many crafts without reducing the amounts needed or amount gained, it's still rather tedious to run rokhala packs for ~80 charcoal each, if that's split into running multiple inland gold packs to sail one cargo for 15/30 coal it will become massive time/labor sink to try to run packs for coal and coal prices will go up high, as unless gold values for inland packs are significantly increased, the only reason to run them will be to create cargo for yourself to sail

the reason noone is running normal packs for gold is that it's big gold and labor sink rn, you are spending a lot of time to "lose gold" when compared to other readily available incomes like purses (even low gear can farm purses in peace and get better gold for their time then packs, not even talking about the exponential difference in gold/labor) or crafting (hell even illegal farm of baobabs might be comparable labor for less time) and the gold you invest is locked for 22h without reasonable interest (5% on normal is bad, 2% on cargo where u invest half the income is a joke)

3.0 trade system is crucial part of any "why is this server better then live" discussion especially since you guys refuse to adress the massive balance issues (I know you always say it's not worth since there's new patch, but guess what, there is always a new patch, even after new patch it's not hard to adjust for it and the new patch won't be coming for half a year)

if you are going to roll with the patch without making massive changes to these issues people won't have a good reason to play here, free patron and higher exp gain is not going to carry this server, people left their gear and land on live because they weren't happy with the state of the game, they will do the same here, many people are straight up refusing to play in this patch right now, paying taxes and waiting for better class balance and economy, what happens when it get even worse

you have a community here that is willing to put time and effort into helping you improve the game, all you need to do is to show that you are willing to do it and ask for ideas and data, you should use it before the remaining players lose interest in the server, as coming back from minimal population won't be possible
*points in the direction of Beerson* What he said 8^)
 
When 5.0 is released, it will be more clear what further updates are needed for it. Now, when we have 2 systems in place, each system affects another one.​
Right now new trade system doesn’t work to the full extent, as part of the players simply don’t use it. When everyone starts using it, it will be more clear if it requires further balancing and what exactly needs to be changed.​
 
When 5.0 is released, it will be more clear what further updates are needed for it. Now, when we have 2 systems in place, each system affects another one.​
Right now new trade system doesn’t work to the full extent, as part of the players simply don’t use it. When everyone starts using it, it will be more clear if it requires further balancing and what exactly needs to be changed.​

I get that I do. You need to see how the system works and effects the economy before making adjustments. I think it will become clear that one or both of the options i mentioned will help a great deal especially with a small server population. It may also attract more people to do trade runs. I guess we will see what happens because the new system is not that bad although it may be a bit linear. With that said the reward will have to be worth the risk or it wont be used to make a difference on the economy. I am hopeful =)
 
When 5.0 is released, it will be more clear what further updates are needed for it.​

It already is clear what further updates are needed, at least the major ones, and once it will be released it will be "not worth to change since next patch is coming"
Now, when we have 2 systems in place, each system affects another one.
Right now new trade system doesn’t work to the full extent, as part of the players simply don’t use it. When everyone starts using it, it will be more clear if it requires further balancing and what exactly needs to be changed.

we already told you why players aren't using it and it has little to do with the old trade system being in place, the packs won't magically become worth running when old system is removed, only point in running them will be to produce your own cargo to run for charcoal and add the lost gold to the price of charcoal which will be already way more expensive just because we won't be able to produce enough to satisfy market as I already said in my previous post

you can easily look at the current system, the changes to be and derive necessary updates that can also be tweaked after you seen how they worked
even if you leave it as is and then update it, you will end up tweking the changes anyway especially since you are unable to predict how the update will change the system do you expect to be able to predict how your own changes impact it?

instead of asking us to name new custom pet to be added in credit shop you can ask us to provide data and math on current versus upcoming trade system in order to keep enough players to buy your custom pet
 
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[...] only point in running them [regular packs] will be to produce your own cargo to run for charcoal and add the lost gold to the price of charcoal which will be already way more expensive just because we won't be able to produce enough to satisfy market [...]

Thank you for reminding me of the fact that on retail people did indeed only create cargo to immediately take it themselves. And woe to the random person who bought a cargo while they were doing that, the creator of the cargo got pissed off to say the least because someone took "their" cargo.

I myself despise tr, I'd rather do any of the other fun things this game has to offer, and to either be forced to create my own cargo with a tr, or to buy charcoal overpriced is not on my to do list. I believe it probably will be overpriced, seeing as the people who would actually take the time to create cargo and then get the charcoal...they would control the market.
 
@Beerson and @Aviendha ... with the 5.0 update, the cargo packs are always available. There will be no need to run inland trade packs to generate cargo. The inland trade packs will only help to lower the price of the cargo packs.


My concern is that you will have to buy cargo at one of 3 spots on your continent. Pirate guilds (purple, red, or green) will only need to camp those 3 spots, and will know every boat that enters the water with cargo. There will only be 3 destinations to turn in the cargo, also easy to camp. This can lead to a monopoly on the charcoal, as only the strongest guilds will be able to generate the charcoal. The rest of us will be destined to run our trade packs day and night to earn gold to buy the charcoal from them, and by doing so make it cheaper for the monopoly to buy the cargo packs to get more charcoal to sell to us at whatever price they choose.
 
@Beerson and @Aviendha ... with the 5.0 update, the cargo packs are always available. There will be no need to run inland trade packs to generate cargo. The inland trade packs will only help to lower the price of the cargo packs.

Interesting, thank you.

About the camping tho, trade outlets will stay safe zones right? Or am I missing something there as well?
 
Not sure I will enjoy this new trade system. I use kark packs in order to get my charcoal, and that seems a lot easier then having to make specific things in order to produce cargo to get charc. Plus i will get more charc with the kark packs then i would with the cargo system. I have voiced my concern every single time a patch has been pushed, but we keep going and going, pushing into the patches ppl left on live with. Sighs~
 
Interesting, thank you.

About the camping tho, trade outlets will stay safe zones right? Or am I missing something there as well?

I would assume they will still be safe zones, yes. What i mean is this...

Right now, people make trade packs, fertilizer packs, or larders, wherever they feel like making them. Then they take them to any beach or shore, anywhere, hidden and secret or out of the way, to load them onto a boat. Then they have several different destination points to deliver them.

With this new system, you will have to go to one of 3 spots on your continent to purchase cargo packs. It's easier to watch 3 spots than it is to patrol the entire coastline of a continent. So unless you buy the cargo and then haul it away over land instead of putting it directly onto a boat, someone will likely be watching you load your boat at the trade outlet, so they will know every boat on the water with cargo. And with only 3 destinations, your boat won't be hard to find once it leaves the dock.
 
Not sure I will enjoy this new trade system. I use kark packs in order to get my charcoal, and that seems a lot easier then having to make specific things in order to produce cargo to get charc.

Dw about that part, Zeirlynn just pointed out this:

@Beerson and @Aviendha ... with the 5.0 update, the cargo packs are always available. There will be no need to run inland trade packs to generate cargo. The inland trade packs will only help to lower the price of the cargo packs.

Tho ye it will be harder to get the same amount of charcoal from a tr than before, so prices will go up most likely.
 
I would assume they will still be safe zones, yes. What i mean is this...

Right now, people make trade packs, fertilizer packs, or larders, wherever they feel like making them. Then they take them to any beach or shore, anywhere, hidden and secret or out of the way, to load them onto a boat. Then they have several different destination points to deliver them.

With this new system, you will have to go to one of 3 spots on your continent to purchase cargo packs. It's easier to watch 3 spots than it is to patrol the entire coastline of a continent. So unless you buy the cargo and then haul it away over land instead of putting it directly onto a boat, someone will likely be watching you load your boat at the trade outlet, so they will know every boat on the water with cargo. And with only 3 destinations, your boat won't be hard to find once it leaves the dock.

I see your point.

However, what I did on retail as a pirate is a possible solution: I drove my cargos away from the tradeposts and load on my boat them somewhere else. Had to avoid those pesky Nuians ?
 
I see your point.

However, what I did on retail as a pirate is a possible solution: I drove my cargos away from the tradeposts and load on my boat them somewhere else. Had to avoid those pesky Nuians ?

That only works when the freshness meter is not operational, now that it is literally operational it doesn't even give you time to avoid pirates since you lose a good percentage of the payment
 
That only works when the freshness meter is not operational, now that it is literally operational it doesn't even give you time to avoid pirates since you lose a good percentage of the payment

I did that with the meter tyvm
 
Interesting, thank you.

About the camping tho, trade outlets will stay safe zones right? Or am I missing something there as well?
I think Z means the leaving from those destinations with cargo. With only using 3-4 few people castaway straight is a Pirate's dream because all routes pass through a very narrow section. Then camping the outlet lets Pirates see who is leaving these area's is priority not the frieghters coming in. This will result in very few people wanting to do these runs because of the very high risk. I linked a video in this thread by Foxfires explaining what will likely happen here. The cargo infinite as it is will range from 14g low end (If peopel do trade runs inland) to 26g high end if very few run inland packs. Each pack will net 15 charcoal on haranya from Nuia/30 charcoal in DS.

So if inland trade runs are not boosted i doubt people will do them and cargo will remain high 26g per pack for 15 charcoal. So how many players will risk spending 26g per pack to get 15 charcoal with a high likely hood they will be first spotted then robbed. Here is the video by Foxfires regarding the new trade system that is also at the start of this thread that i asked Sparkle to give a watch if they had not seen it. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...CBC4077D647851B42CE6CBC&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
 
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I did that with the meter tyvm
What you need to think about is the capability of the people hunting. Example in HCIC we have anywhere from 18-20 merches with mythic+sails, breather, T5 radar, and shroud lights. We can cover a large area of the sea now with a min of 3-4 people. Now with new trade system that narrows the window imagine how hard it will be for others. You have one guy on a elephant in an advantages point that tells us in comms who is leaving in a car/hauler ect with cargo. So #1 you know the player is running a different route and has a limited time to do so. Even if someone slipped by imagine what is in store for them when the get to Haranya which will be 100% camped. Vill and Yny both have safe zones yet people can still get packs stolen when arriving on a merch.

I do know what you are referring to though. I used to buy cargo and place it in a car during non peak times and drive it to a staging point then sail it over. That may work for some but for the majority it will be a nightmare. Now picture PN2 that is bored af thrown into the mix with DPS, China east and west, and HCIC. The sea will be a very dangerous place indeed.
 
I think Z means the leaving from those destinations with cargo. With only a few people in castaway straight in is a Pirate's dream because all routes pass through a very narrow section. Then camping the outlet lets Pirates see who is leaving these area's is priority not the frieghters coming in. This will result in very few people wanting to do these runs because of the very high risk. I linked a video in this thread by Foxfires explaining what will likely happen here. The cargo infinite as it is will range from 14g low end (If peopel do trade runs inland) to 26g high end if very few run inland packs. Each pack will net 15 charcoal on haranya from Nuia/30 charcoal in DS.

So if inland trade runs are not boosted i doubt people will do them and cargo will remain high 26g per pack for 15 charcoal. So how many players will risk spending 26g per pack to get 15 charcoal with a high likely hood they will be first spotted then robbed. Here is the video by Foxfires regarding the new trade system that is also at the start of this thread that i asked Sparkle to give a watch if they had not seen it. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...CBC4077D647851B42CE6CBC&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
Right now many players use old trade system, that's why not everyone add packs to the trade outlets. When only 1 system is in place, everyone involved in trade runs will use this system for inland trade runs. So, cargo price will drop anyway. But hard to predict for how much and what type of trade runs will be more popular. For it we need to wait for 1 system only to start working, so correct data could be gathered.​
 
I understand @Sparkle I was just re-stating my point to others new to my post. Some people will read a thread and respond to the last comment posted without reading the previous posts. It is the smart play to see how the trade system does on it's own before making changes.

If my memory serves me right gilda packs become super profitable in 5.0 for time spent and mats. A lot of old popular runs gweo to Solz, lily to Solz, TC to Solz range from 34g - 42g per gilda pack. Those are also very fast runs that range from 5min to 10min and will become very popular. That is if the custom change to gilda packs stay as is with increased mat cost over gilda being used.

I am hopeful that the new system brings back trade runners so that charcoal does not double in price for new/returning players. Although it will be good for those of us that have epic shat tons stock piled it wont be good for the server as a whole
 
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