aa258412
New Member
JUST UPGRADE IT~goXD
ArcheRage 3.5 Discussion
- Thread starter Sparkle
- Start date
Sexpanther
New Member
Wholeheartedly agree with others on the trade changes- please just don't go there.
On the fence about ancestral skills. If you look at them carefully and balance the numbers, I'm fine with it. It's always fun to get new skills to use, but some of them were incredibly overpowered and leeched life out of pvp by allowing no reasonable counterplay.
I didn't like the crafting changes. Leave the recipes as they are, generally. Other people have already explained my reasons for this (messes with the economy, basically). There are some small tweaks that could be okay, but this basically f*s over people who made their gold through crafting or selling crafting materials. The economy here is just about stable again after Goldbuyinggeddon, please don't turn it completely upside down again.
The new zones could be good purely for PVP and more content, I don't think they're necessary but some people like them so I don't see why not. An opportunity for more land would be nice, honestly, because this server is seeing an influx of new players and I often see them complaining that there is no land available for them.
Please don't f* up the timers any more than they already are. NO to the Halcy changes, NO to the set boss timers (aside from RD and Kraken), etc. This server has a LOT of EU and OCE players who already can't participate in almost half the ingame events. If anything, move the timers back to Central time to make it fairer for everyone! People should have fair access to things. It's not fair that someone can't ever do Morpheus because they work evenings or live in another country.
Many of the QoL and small changes were fantastic. The teleport book changes, the character screen changes, the rebirth changes, etc, all great.
The big rant:
Erenor gear... I'm against it.
It's all well and good to say "oh it's something new to work towards", but it just seemed massively unfair to me, even more so on this server than on live. Most of the people happy about this are people with already high GS, who have time and money to throw haphazardly at the game, while failing to consider other people or the health of the server. Even intelligent whales can see that this is bad for the server (and their pvp contest).
Erenor gear (and also the eternal grade) creates an even bigger disparity between players. Those who can swipe or completely no-life the game all day are at a huge advantage here and will have this kind of gear before many of the newer (or poorer) players can even hit a divine or epic t1. Someone with a mythic or an Ayanad can already 1-shot practically anyone else in the game, there is no need to give them even more power.
This was the start of f*ing over obsidian users in my opinion. Obsidian already comes with a set of disadvantages- it became harder to regrade than "crafted" gear, it was generally more expensive to get a T7 than an Ayanad, you needed it at a higher grade than crafted gear to make it worthwhile, it required a lot of boring PVE farming for bound materials and, perhaps most importantly, it is bound and untradeable. The payoff for this was that a T7 was almost always going to be slightly better than its crafted counterpart. Those who worked hard (or paid a lot of their irl money) to grind their way to a legendary or mythic T7 will have essentially wasted their time and money if their weapon can suddenly be outclassed by a tradeable celestial-divine Erenor, or by someone hitting a lucky proc to Eternal. It's not like they can resell their weapon and swap to an Erenor/Eternal one, because it is bound at its highest grade (and worth less than they paid for it). You're basically punishing someone for committing to their class/character enough to create a really expensive piece of bound gear.
On the fence about ancestral skills. If you look at them carefully and balance the numbers, I'm fine with it. It's always fun to get new skills to use, but some of them were incredibly overpowered and leeched life out of pvp by allowing no reasonable counterplay.
I didn't like the crafting changes. Leave the recipes as they are, generally. Other people have already explained my reasons for this (messes with the economy, basically). There are some small tweaks that could be okay, but this basically f*s over people who made their gold through crafting or selling crafting materials. The economy here is just about stable again after Goldbuyinggeddon, please don't turn it completely upside down again.
The new zones could be good purely for PVP and more content, I don't think they're necessary but some people like them so I don't see why not. An opportunity for more land would be nice, honestly, because this server is seeing an influx of new players and I often see them complaining that there is no land available for them.
Please don't f* up the timers any more than they already are. NO to the Halcy changes, NO to the set boss timers (aside from RD and Kraken), etc. This server has a LOT of EU and OCE players who already can't participate in almost half the ingame events. If anything, move the timers back to Central time to make it fairer for everyone! People should have fair access to things. It's not fair that someone can't ever do Morpheus because they work evenings or live in another country.
Many of the QoL and small changes were fantastic. The teleport book changes, the character screen changes, the rebirth changes, etc, all great.
The big rant:
Erenor gear... I'm against it.
It's all well and good to say "oh it's something new to work towards", but it just seemed massively unfair to me, even more so on this server than on live. Most of the people happy about this are people with already high GS, who have time and money to throw haphazardly at the game, while failing to consider other people or the health of the server. Even intelligent whales can see that this is bad for the server (and their pvp contest).
Erenor gear (and also the eternal grade) creates an even bigger disparity between players. Those who can swipe or completely no-life the game all day are at a huge advantage here and will have this kind of gear before many of the newer (or poorer) players can even hit a divine or epic t1. Someone with a mythic or an Ayanad can already 1-shot practically anyone else in the game, there is no need to give them even more power.
This was the start of f*ing over obsidian users in my opinion. Obsidian already comes with a set of disadvantages- it became harder to regrade than "crafted" gear, it was generally more expensive to get a T7 than an Ayanad, you needed it at a higher grade than crafted gear to make it worthwhile, it required a lot of boring PVE farming for bound materials and, perhaps most importantly, it is bound and untradeable. The payoff for this was that a T7 was almost always going to be slightly better than its crafted counterpart. Those who worked hard (or paid a lot of their irl money) to grind their way to a legendary or mythic T7 will have essentially wasted their time and money if their weapon can suddenly be outclassed by a tradeable celestial-divine Erenor, or by someone hitting a lucky proc to Eternal. It's not like they can resell their weapon and swap to an Erenor/Eternal one, because it is bound at its highest grade (and worth less than they paid for it). You're basically punishing someone for committing to their class/character enough to create a really expensive piece of bound gear.
Figment
New Member
I am not much of a PvPer i am more of a pack running pleb, this is my favorite Farmvill game.
The 3.5 patch had good and bad points.
The Good.
1. I liked the trading Hubs themselves they were amazing good addition (will talk about changes to packs below)
2. Being able to see the % upgrade chance.
3. The rebirth changes
4. I liked the same side charcoal quest.
5. All the housing Stuffs!!!! AMAZING
6. If i remember correctly, the 3.5 patch brought out a few extra spaces for land. I did not get any due to work but Still AMAZING!
7. Family and Guild Member’s houses, Farms, and Aquafarms are now displayed on the map.
8. Planting outside of protected land now costs no labor.
The Bad
1. The Changes to Trade packs, there was never enough packs made and moved for the Official server for this change to work, so in the end people would login and wait at a trade hub for hours and hope to get their 1 pack, then people like me with a hauler would lode up 8 all at once and stick them all in a silo and horde or even sell them to people. NOT GOOD, it created alot of salt.
2. Skill changes. other people have better written out statements then I for this topic.
3. Crafting Changes.
4. The Changes to Trade packs
5. The Changes to Trade packs
The 3.5 patch had good and bad points.
The Good.
1. I liked the trading Hubs themselves they were amazing good addition (will talk about changes to packs below)
2. Being able to see the % upgrade chance.
3. The rebirth changes
4. I liked the same side charcoal quest.
5. All the housing Stuffs!!!! AMAZING
6. If i remember correctly, the 3.5 patch brought out a few extra spaces for land. I did not get any due to work but Still AMAZING!
7. Family and Guild Member’s houses, Farms, and Aquafarms are now displayed on the map.
8. Planting outside of protected land now costs no labor.
The Bad
1. The Changes to Trade packs, there was never enough packs made and moved for the Official server for this change to work, so in the end people would login and wait at a trade hub for hours and hope to get their 1 pack, then people like me with a hauler would lode up 8 all at once and stick them all in a silo and horde or even sell them to people. NOT GOOD, it created alot of salt.
2. Skill changes. other people have better written out statements then I for this topic.
3. Crafting Changes.
4. The Changes to Trade packs
5. The Changes to Trade packs
Epic
Well-Known Member
I'm rank 2 on the server and I can't agree more with you. I'm going to swipe one either way if they add it but I already 1 shot most people. Giving me another 400 magic attack on top of my already 1680 buffed is just stupid. Erenor is what made people quit. Hard enough to not get one shot by high tier obsidian items let alone high toer Erenor
Please please please do not listen to the people complaining about Erenor gear.
Here are the complaints about Erenor gear summed up:
"It invalidates obsidian". > Translation: We don't want to have to do work again to get end game gear. We pissed away IRL money to be competitive, and now we have to do it again, because we cannot possibly stand actually working for something to be on top. We made poor choices with our finances by falling into the cash milking traps of a game, and we demand you cater to us.
If you listen to the above, you basically stop the MMO progression wheel. People are now literally complaining about content additions to the game, because they made poor choices to zerg their way to the top with money. There are some rare people who spent a lot of time crafting obsidian and made it to the top, but those are far and few between. If any other MMO in history listened to players like this, every one of them would die in 2 years, because there'd be no new content outside of maybe some dungeons. Gearing up is 80% of the POINT of an MMO. New gear is always a good thing.
Essentially those on top want to STAY on top, while forcing those below to either buy from them to progress, or never make it up to their level. Erenor allows *everyone* to make it to the top.
"It creates more gear disparity" > Translation: wah, some people get to be higher geared than me, even though they STILL get to do that now. But now they get to do it MORE.
The gear disparity already exists. It is what the game is built around. Arms races. Getting better gear to be stronger in PvP. It's not the greatest system, and it is specifically designed to convince people to buy things in the game with IRL money to get ahead, but it is what we have. If things stagnate, what's the point of logging in and playing?
These complaints are literally complaining about the POINTS of MMO games. MMO games are supposed to be time sinks. They are supposed to be rewarding for putting in effort. Erenor is the FIRST GRADE of gear to actually reward players for putting in TIME and not spending MONEY. Players do trade runs > collect items > craft up to ayanad in a controllable manner > regrade ayanad > craft their first Erenor piece. No need to pay money. No need to swipe. Purely time based efforts. Effort in > Reward out. It is exactly what an MMO is supposed to be.
Please put Erenor in the game. It levels the playing field. Yes, it is hard to get to. It is supposed to be. But literally anyone can achieve it. Sure, some people will get there first. Every game ever has that core of people who are able to no life, and reap the top level rewards. That is life. Please do not let the entitled minority ruin something that actually turns Archeage from a P2W MMO into a normal MMO that rewards your time and effort.
Here are the complaints about Erenor gear summed up:
"It invalidates obsidian". > Translation: We don't want to have to do work again to get end game gear. We pissed away IRL money to be competitive, and now we have to do it again, because we cannot possibly stand actually working for something to be on top. We made poor choices with our finances by falling into the cash milking traps of a game, and we demand you cater to us.
If you listen to the above, you basically stop the MMO progression wheel. People are now literally complaining about content additions to the game, because they made poor choices to zerg their way to the top with money. There are some rare people who spent a lot of time crafting obsidian and made it to the top, but those are far and few between. If any other MMO in history listened to players like this, every one of them would die in 2 years, because there'd be no new content outside of maybe some dungeons. Gearing up is 80% of the POINT of an MMO. New gear is always a good thing.
Essentially those on top want to STAY on top, while forcing those below to either buy from them to progress, or never make it up to their level. Erenor allows *everyone* to make it to the top.
"It creates more gear disparity" > Translation: wah, some people get to be higher geared than me, even though they STILL get to do that now. But now they get to do it MORE.
The gear disparity already exists. It is what the game is built around. Arms races. Getting better gear to be stronger in PvP. It's not the greatest system, and it is specifically designed to convince people to buy things in the game with IRL money to get ahead, but it is what we have. If things stagnate, what's the point of logging in and playing?
These complaints are literally complaining about the POINTS of MMO games. MMO games are supposed to be time sinks. They are supposed to be rewarding for putting in effort. Erenor is the FIRST GRADE of gear to actually reward players for putting in TIME and not spending MONEY. Players do trade runs > collect items > craft up to ayanad in a controllable manner > regrade ayanad > craft their first Erenor piece. No need to pay money. No need to swipe. Purely time based efforts. Effort in > Reward out. It is exactly what an MMO is supposed to be.
Please put Erenor in the game. It levels the playing field. Yes, it is hard to get to. It is supposed to be. But literally anyone can achieve it. Sure, some people will get there first. Every game ever has that core of people who are able to no life, and reap the top level rewards. That is life. Please do not let the entitled minority ruin something that actually turns Archeage from a P2W MMO into a normal MMO that rewards your time and effort.
Sexpanther
New Member
@vulgrr ^ That makes literally no sense.
Imagine you work tirelessly for months to get a promotion, and then your boss goes "never mind, you have to work all over again".
Why should people have to start all over again when they ground out hours and hours of library and mistsong, farmed all of their oils, spent all of their hard-earned gold on wisps (whether this gold was earned through hours in game or hours of your hard-earned irl cash)? Do you honestly expect them to just be like "oh well this only took me 2 months and 300k gold, here we go again haha I can't wait to be irrelevant again"? Not everyone swiped for the pieces they have now, and even if they did, so what? Some people have the time to grind the game to high gs, other people work all day and spend that money to get high gs in the limited playtime they have.
The people who outright swiped for their gear will outright swipe for the new gear, those are not the people with the problem. It's the people who worked hard who will suffer, and the people who committed to obsidian t7 gear will now just have redundant pieces sitting around wasting away in their warehouses.
This is not the main problem, though, the main problem is that it only makes the gear disparity harder for new players. The people who instantly swipe this gear will be even more overpowered than they already are, and this will discourage new players (who are already discouraged by all the 7k+ people 1-hitting them) even further. ESPECIALLY at a time where the server is seeing an influx of new players, this seems like a terrible idea to me. There is literally no need for anyone to have any more attack/defence/healing than they do with the current best weapons.
Half the people complaining are already people in the top 50 on the server, they are not complaining that people outgear them. They are complaining because it is bad for the health of the server and is a hindrance to them getting actual competition.
Imagine you work tirelessly for months to get a promotion, and then your boss goes "never mind, you have to work all over again".
Why should people have to start all over again when they ground out hours and hours of library and mistsong, farmed all of their oils, spent all of their hard-earned gold on wisps (whether this gold was earned through hours in game or hours of your hard-earned irl cash)? Do you honestly expect them to just be like "oh well this only took me 2 months and 300k gold, here we go again haha I can't wait to be irrelevant again"? Not everyone swiped for the pieces they have now, and even if they did, so what? Some people have the time to grind the game to high gs, other people work all day and spend that money to get high gs in the limited playtime they have.
The people who outright swiped for their gear will outright swipe for the new gear, those are not the people with the problem. It's the people who worked hard who will suffer, and the people who committed to obsidian t7 gear will now just have redundant pieces sitting around wasting away in their warehouses.
This is not the main problem, though, the main problem is that it only makes the gear disparity harder for new players. The people who instantly swipe this gear will be even more overpowered than they already are, and this will discourage new players (who are already discouraged by all the 7k+ people 1-hitting them) even further. ESPECIALLY at a time where the server is seeing an influx of new players, this seems like a terrible idea to me. There is literally no need for anyone to have any more attack/defence/healing than they do with the current best weapons.
Half the people complaining are already people in the top 50 on the server, they are not complaining that people outgear them. They are complaining because it is bad for the health of the server and is a hindrance to them getting actual competition.
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Here's what you, and everyone who says "ignore Erenor complaints" is forgetting: the gear disparity between players is larger than it was on retail when Erenor Eternal released because when Erenor came out, NA already had AA for 3 years. Players had 3 years to set up, and pushing Erenor when this server JUST hit being a year old and having a huge influx of new players with no way of catching up, it increases gear gap and makes the strong stronger while giving little positive movement in gear progression for other players. There is no catch up mechanic for gear, so while the rich players get to make Erenor and upgrade it to buff their power even more, new players are still gearing up with GHA and Serp gear because the free Celestial gear seems to be a once-in-a-blue-moon type deal.
MMO games are all about being time sinks, you're right. The problem is this server is still young. Erenor came when a majority of the competitive player base was at a certain threshold. We don't even scratch that threshold yet. It's too early for such a power increase unless they give us something better than "pay 5x more in materials to guarantee Delphinad even though reforging already does that". Players are still crafting their gear trying to get the right EPHERIUM to survive in a dungeon, we're in no position to get Erenor yet.
Kaotic
Member
We don’t care about getting new gear or leveling it up dude. Either have more than enough dollars or time to get it. What we care about is that the attack stats on Erenor are so high that people get one shot by lightning tiger strike. That is not fun for casual players and it is also not fun for geared players. I am more than ok with people progressing in game and getting better gear but Erenor is not the answer to that. It seems like a great idea until Epic here one shots you repeatedly and you can do nothing to stop it.
Come to think of it, maybe a nerfed version of Erenor is the solution here. Nothing wrong with the system, just the stats. Perhaps make it easier to rank up but lower the attack stats?
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People *already* one shot other people anyway. Have you ever run into a darkrunner with an epic or greater weapon? One shots already exist. This argument falls into the "gear disparity" category. Erenor actually FIXES that disparity, by allowing everyone to obtain it.
You are complaining about the current state of the game with statements like that.
Kaotic
Member
Yeah that’s our point my man. This will just make that worse. The argument that “people already die to fast so it’s ok if it is faster” is just stupid.
Again with the gear disparity complaints.
The gear disparity already exists, and in such a way that, unless you are either A. a heavy swiper, or B. someone with a massive group behind you, there isn't a feasible way to catch up.
The current gear disparity largely comes from gear grades. Someone with a legendary weapon is going to stomp mud holes in someone with a divine. With the current system of RNG for regrades being the way it is, it is already nearly impossible to catch up, unless you catch a really lucky break.
Erenor takes time, but it is literally a guarantee that you get to it. And with the regrade changes of 3.5, you're guaranteed to get to at least divine with it. And, if the Archerage Admins take the right path and allow dungeon weapons/armor and field lootable weapons/armor from mobs to by synthesized into the Erenor gear for lower XP rates, you're also guaranteed to get the highest tier Erenor. All from putting forth effort into farming.
Erenor was the first step AWAY from the P2W. Sure, some people can still swipe for regrading and get there faster. But it is no longer an exclusive club. There will ALWAYS be tiers of higher players. That's how MMOs work.
Why prevent everyone else from getting there someday?
It will not make it worse. Everyone has the ability to get there with erenor. Unlike the current system, which barrs players out with pay walls by making the RNG for regrades so harsh your only options are to basically throw cash at the game for charms, or get a group together to fund a regrade attempt. Which someone tried, and still failed with something like 1mil gold.
Archeage has always been harshly P2W. I'm not arguing that. Erenor just paved the way for everyone to make it to the top without being FORCED into P2W just for higher graded gear.
Is it still possible to P2W for the higher tier? Absolutely, unquestionably. Is it required? No, it is not.
Epic
Well-Known Member
Nerfed version isn't the solution. Who would pay 100's of thousands for a nerfed version. The server needs more time. Thats it.
Kaotic
Member
Dude do you really think that people in game are going to farm 1,000,000 gold for a high tier Erenor? Or do you think they will stay the same and Epic will just have 2k magic attack?
You're looking at this from too narrow a lens. You aren't seeing the bigger picture. Time is the key here. With time, everyone can make it there. Erenor rewards *time based effort*.
And again, your complaints boil down to "gear disparity". It will literally *always exist*. It exists now, to a staggering degree. You are forced into trying to get legendary or better before hitting T7, because anything else is a waste. At least with obsidian you can blow up a bunch of T1s trying (which, you will). You also roll the dice doubly hard on crafted, because first you have to GET to ayanad upgradeable, then you have to pray to the gods that it rolls a good regrade AND a good unwrap.
Meanwhile, Erenor severely closes that gap. Not only is the entry a measly divine ayanad of any type (due to the crafting system no longer being RNG based), but getting an Erenor up to divine isn't all that bad, from a time based perspective. And the regrade system was heavily eased up on.
Erenor closes the gap, enables all to achieve end game stats, and provides a more balanced gear distribution, given enough time.
Complaining about a system because someone will always have better is no different than complaining about rich people because they have money and you don't. There's always someone with more out there.
Preventing other players from accessing good level end gear is just stupid.
we need to keep the crafting mats the same as they are right now in 3.0. new players would find it easier to craft and work towards something like a delph set. it wont seem so out of reach to get that perfect 7/7 set you want. with 3.5 material cost changes youre paying 6x more than what you would normally pay to craft a delph. this will discourage new players because the material cost is just insane. it goes from 7 moonlight archeum essence to 40 essence to craft a delph. keep cloaking from 3.5 and current material cost for crafting.