ranged rogue

Discussion in 'Game Debates' started by trapwhre02, Jan 13, 2019.

  1. trapwhre02

    trapwhre02 Active Member

    can we please remove melee attack from ranged rogue arena buff and tweak the other buffs melees are supposed to run so not every single dr abuses the extreme amount of shield block & evasion in addition to all the parrying from dual-wielding, thatd be great thanks
     
  2. trapwhre02

    trapwhre02 Active Member

    - edit read 5th post
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  3. Sparkle

    Sparkle Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Would like to hear other players thoughts about it.
     
  4. Aviendha

    Aviendha Active Member

    On live they revamped the entire buff system for balanced arenas at some point, though that didn't really change the imbalance.. there people would just pick plate healer for example.

    So yea I do agree that it's rather imbalanced atm but I'm not sure if it won't end up being imbalanced another way instead when it gets fixed..
     
  5. trapwhre02

    trapwhre02 Active Member

    i have looked up more into how focus affects ranged, and from what i've read, people extensively testing it, it does seem to affect ranged skills. some say it affects it less than melee skills, however, it's something i can't confirm. so we'll go with the benefit of the doubt and say that the focus stat doesn't give an advantage to any side.

    focus aside, there are still problems in my opinion, with classes other classes using this set. i'll explain the reason.
    endless arrow combos with slowed & poisoned targets for more damage.
    charged bolt is a guaranteed 100% hit, but the cooldown is 10s, it's slow debuff only lasts 2.5s, and the dmg buff for endless arrows is 24%.
    toxic shot has a much higher duration with 6s, 9s cooldown being 1s less than charged bolt, and the dmg buff for endless arrows is 33%.
    as a side-note, toxic shot has a higher damage on impact than charged bolt, for me it's 3300 & 3900 damage.

    so toxic shot is not only superior to charged bolt, it's also absolutely crucial in arena where the damage of endless arrows, even on cloth is very poor. endless arrow on a poisoned target is our main damage output, and it misses.. A LOT.
    besides, a lot of classes that run the ranged rogue buff play with shadowplay, freerunner grants full immunity to poison.

    piercing shot gets extra damage over time on poisoned targets & increases the slow effect on slowed targets which helps tremendously when kiting. charged bolt+piercing shot to us archers is like throw dagger for melees when it comes to rendering your target immobile.

    concussive arrow has 1.5s cast-time & does poor damage on targets, unless they are under feral mark effect or bleed.

    snipe is by far our strongest skill, it's 27 cooldown & trips snared targets, however, it's 1.5s cast-time aswell & is not guaranteed to hit.

    overwhelm/shadowsmite are our last hope, when we get caught (which happens when you play against a class that has 3more gapclosers than you do). overwhelm is mainly used for the trip on shadowsmite, to buy us some time to build up distance again.


    if there's one thing that people should notice when reading all of this ^, is that archers are a class, that heavily rely on combo effects.
    if toxic shot misses, endless arrow basically does 0 damage, & piercing shot gets no extra damage.
    if piercing shot misses, our target will only have a very little slow effect.
    if snipe gets evaded, we not only lose a ton of potential damage to RNG, we also lose the trip on snared targets.
    if overhwelm misses, we won't get the trip combo with shadowsmite
    if shadowsmite misses, we neither get a trip nor a shackle.
    if throw dagger misses, we don't get the stun from charged bolt.

    our survivability & damage heavily relies on whether our stuff hits its target or doesnt.
    we cannot afford to have our skills miss to ridiculous evasion, parry & block rates.



    Ranged Rogue Buffs:
    +1303 agility (roughly 20% evasion)
    + 631 melee attack
    +7.0% shield block
    + 6000(!) health

    battle focus adds +30% parry, which results in 57% physical damage avoidance(!)
    roughly 3/5 hits on a player with this buff & battle focus will MISS.

    https://i.gyazo.com/59de48a2b5ee63a46bf8af2ed5b8f799.mp4
    ^
    this is exactly what happens very frequently. he has 27% from the set + 15% block rate from defense passive. so even on players that "only" have 42%, skills are already missing it's target like crazy. now imagine fighting a player whose rate is at 57%..


    Archerys damage output is small, it's not high burst, it's constant linear damage over time, so we take longer to kill our enemies, having to take longer for it makes us have to stay alive longer aswell obviously. This is why i think these strong set buffs are justified for archers.
    But a class that can kill it's enemy within one stun-lock combo should not be able to benefit from these advantages.

    TLDR
    I just don't think it's fair that one class gets everything (high burst dps, survivability, mobility, cc & cc break) whereas other classes have to sarcrifice at least one of those categories, to be strong in the others.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
    Necrote and Aviendha like this.
  6. trapwhre02

    trapwhre02 Active Member

    post edited
     
  7. Noname_Shiro

    Noname_Shiro New Member

    Arena isn't really balanced, just focus one, put all your cc and, with some luck, you are a darkrunner so easy to kill 80% of other players... (well, at least for 3c3)

    Arena buffs should be totally remodel.
     
  8. Necrote

    Necrote Member

    In the very least though, it can be indubitably said that its an abuse of the sparring arena framework if melee classes like DR are running with a Ranged Rogue buff to get an undue advantage.

    If a "skillset check" is implemented so that the sparring arena can limit the choice of a Ranged Rogue buff only to players with Archery skillset in their build (Primeval, Ebonsong, Stone Arrow, Druid, Ranger, etc.), then I think it'll resolve this abuse issue with minimal changes. No need to tamper with the Ranged Rogue buffs while still putting an end to the abuse.
     
    Aviendha likes this.

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