trapwhre02
Well-Known Member
I think he meant the raw gold fee from crafting them which has tripled from 10g to 30g.
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I think he meant the raw gold fee from crafting them which has tripled from 10g to 30g.
He's asking for them to stack LIKE the above mentioned xD not if those can get higher stacks ;p
if crafting a ton of pots, I can understand the request, however, you'd need a lot of labor to, for example, have use of 10k produce stacks for crafting something like Assorted Ribs or Kraken's Mightsi know labor regens fast, but not that fast.
Well. i think in this server, labor is not an issue..
40/5mins + and stipend is 3k a day + 5k every time you log in basically... it's enough labor..
Cool, thanks for the response.
Aviendha
Well-Known Member
well take Assorted ribs as an example. with 5k+ 3k = 8k when you login first time, that is 48x166labor crafts of assorted ribs. most mats required are a number of 16. For example, 16 moringa fruit. 16x48 = 768 moringa fruit you'd need to burn labor on this .. not 10k by far xD
Aviendha
Well-Known Member
yes i know, i already calculated it before this patch launched, its a lot cheaper than the previous patch with the gilda dust.
trapwhre02
Well-Known Member
but having increased required mats doesn't nullify the fact that more gold is taken out of the game now. you buy the increased quantity of mats from other players or grow them yourself. so the gold just moves from player to player and barely gets removed from the game.
Wasn't it 5 Charcoal to make in 3.5? So it would've been 17g at worst to craft these stones, which is still 40% less than what we currently have.
Aviendha
Well-Known Member
but the post i replied to wasnt about gold sinks, but about new people having a hard time making gold.. I felt like I needed to point out a detail and then I said:
Original 3.5 required 20 Charcoal for Synthium stone craft. We had charcoal completely removed from the Synthium stones craft and changed it to 20g. This information can be found in our patch notes. So, this change made this craft cheaper, not more expensive.
- Synthium Stones in contradistinction to original 3.5 version will not require Charcoal Stabilizers. Gilda Dust is completely removed from the game crafts and will not be required for the Synthium Stones as well. Instead, cost of the Synthium Stones craft is increased from 10g to 30g.
Aviendha
Well-Known Member
well she says the 20 charcoal got replaced by 20g. so 10g from original recipe + 20g for charcoal = 30g.........
so atm indeed still bit cheaper than buying charcoal off AH, like I said before and Sparkle confirms in her above post. and it's a lot cheaper than using the gilda dust from before ^^
xkf2
Active Member
He's asking for them to stack LIKE the above mentioned xD not if those can get higher stacks ;p
if crafting a ton of pots, I can understand the request, however, you'd need a lot of labor to, for example, have use of 10k produce stacks for crafting something like Assorted Ribs or Kraken's Mights
My bad, I read the like as when people use it to list examples of things
On the whole though, your and my point still stand where we agree the stack size of most items is reasonable and there's only a few niche recipes/items that would need one to carry "so much stuff".
Gonna replug that we're waiting for Wool to 10k stack
Logs and Raw Stone do already stack to 10k...
So does Pelt, Iron Ore, Silver Ore, Copper Ore, Gold Ore, and a few other things...
In fact the ODD one out that doesn't stack to 10k is WOOL.... of all the items you would think would ALSO stack to such a degree... but nope, just screw Cloth crafters
and I already asked for Wool... yet... crickets. And that was during the last time they were asking for stacking requests...
Other stacking requests to 10k would be absurd. Like, you don't need Azalea or Rice or Corn or Rose etc to stack to 10k.... 1k for those is fine
I completely disagree. I have chests overflowing with exactly those items (corn, rice, azaela, clover, roses, etc). They should very much stack to 10k, as other Tier1 items also stack to 10k. Tier1 items have much higher count requirements than T2 and T3 respectively, and therefor, people typically require higher amounts of them for crafting.
Erenor weapons, for example, require 60K of two Tier1 items at minimum. That's 60 slots taken up in a chest.
The ability to accumulate items shouldn't be hard limited to space. Why can we have 10k iron ore, but not flowers? It is inconsistent at best.
It is very awesome that the staff increased stacking size, but realistically, it should be done by item grade/tier to maintain consistency, and not just cherry picked.
Have crafting prices for obsidian T6 weapons ever been looked at? Currently a scepter needs an Ink Sack while the most OP weapon a Nodachi requires a compass? That's like a 30k difference and that's only if they're being sold. Why is this a thing? Mages are locked out.
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No way! The value of gilda stars are in how they are bound and increase in value as you have more.
The new purses pay more for the labor and i guess the acid and armor frags can make you some gold if you can collect all 200 but what else pays much more in 3.5? I haven't noticed many differences to be honest. Braziers and archeum trees maybe? East west packs haven't seemed to double. I do like crafting gear now since it isn't so random so thank you. I am still new so any changes that will earn me more gold will be appreciated.
Logs and Raw Stone do already stack to 10k...
So does Pelt, Iron Ore, Silver Ore, Copper Ore, Gold Ore, and a few other things...
In fact the ODD one out that doesn't stack to 10k is WOOL.... of all the items you would think would ALSO stack to such a degree... but nope, just screw Cloth crafters
and I already asked for Wool... yet... crickets. And that was during the last time they were asking for stacking requests...
Other stacking requests to 10k would be absurd. Like, you don't need Azalea or Rice or Corn or Rose etc to stack to 10k.... 1k for those is fine
Well I do
i farm 400 seed bundles a day.
xkf2
Active Member
Well I do
400 Seed Bundles is only about 8000 harvested crop assuming minimum 20 per pick... realistically more like 22
Not much when a friend and I can push 20k (20,000) crop each in just a few hours...
And realistically 8 slots is not much... you have 150 character slots and 150 warehouse slots once both are maxed out... and then since you are planting 400 bundles that means you have a sizeable amount of land,,, if you have so much land and can output so much crop you can easily afford 600 credits to get 1 Golden Teardrop 100 slot chest...
So... what's the problem???
UNless of course you didn't buy any chests...
I don't disagree with the principle that accumulation of items shouldn't be limited by space... And like you say so called "T1 items" require invariably more mats than "higher tiered" counterparts.
Hell if it were up to me just make everything 10k.... it's so much easier to deal with xD both from a player perspective and the devs' perspective.
But the way you are talking about it makes it sound as though you are trying to make Erenor entirely out of only your character's inventory and warehouse, rather than having houses/silos with storage chests... While it's MOST LIKELY NOT the case, that's really the only explaination for wanting more stacking
. Erenor is a pipedream that is worked towards, yes, but, unless you're a whale you don't do it without taking other smaller steps first and make your way there accordingly by acquiring the production and storage space... That's the point you build up to it over time...Adding to this, not all "T1" items are equivalent in this respect - you are forgetting the DENSITY of items that certain items have over others. Somethings you just save more space making and they are easier to make quickly...
Since you mentioned Erenor crafting lets go with that and examine say the Carpentry path.
Making Oils/Polishes/Pigments is an easy to cosume stack of each farmed component with small amount of labor - e.g. 20 corn and 20 rice and 3 charcoal for making small seed oil, at 15labor per (when at 0 Alchemy Prof)
you can make 100 (which is not even the max stack for small seed oil, more like 200/500/1k? I k now for sure you can make a stack bigger than 100) for only 1.5k labor using 2k each of corn and rice and 300 charcoal. you go from 5 slots to 1 slot (ONE FIFTH of the slots).... and you didn't even max out the small seed oil stack limit
So it's HIGH DENSITY for CHEAP (labor).
The farming labor to grow the stuff is really cheap too as well and you can plant lots on a farm (single or bundles), or, in seedbeds and quickly get a large amount. Acquiring charcoal is also relatively simple.... Buy or do trade runs...
So for that erenor you need like 30k Corn and 30k Rose and 4.5k Charcoal makes 1.5k small seed oil, which costs AT MAXIMUM of 22.5k labor purely for crafting. Obviously along the way your prof will increase and you will get labor cost reductions but this is just rough estimates. And again, harvesting of crops as said is cheap
Under the current stack limits (1k corn, 1k rice, 1k charcoal) you go from 65 slots to either 2 (if seed oil stacks to 1k) or at most 8 slots (if it only stacks to 200). A reduction of at a minimum 58 slots for a small labor cost that is easy to spread over time as you acquire the items. Cheap cheap cheap.
VERSUS
Making Lumber/Stone brick/Iron Ore you need a large amount of the 'raw' mat and a large amount of labor to make a meaningful amonut of the processed mat
3 logs --> 1 lumber at 5 labor per (when at 0 Carpentry Prof). So making 1k Lumber you need 5k labor ... and you go from 3k logs to 1k lumber.
Under 1k-stacking you'd have gone from 3 slots to 1 slot (ONE THIRD of the slots)....
So it's LOW DENSITY and COSTLY (labor)
This isn't including the labor required to cut trees down which you plant fewer of on a given plot of land than the comparable farming/gathering crop, and they take way longer to grow... so makes the cost go up even more comparatively
So for that erenor you need 45k logs to become 15k lumber, costing AT MAXIMUM 75k labor purely for crafting. Then as said trees are expensive to grow, even say you do Majestic trees only you need to spend 45*600 = 27k labor AT MAXIMUM
Obviously again for all of this your prof goes up and you save labor, but, look at the raw numbers and it's still huge even accounting for potential labor savings
but I digress.If logs only stacked to 1k you'd go from 45slots to 15 slots. A reduction of 30 that is only achieved by dumping high amounts of labor only into that thing each and every day and you can't do much else except wait for trees to grow or labor to regen... So again you are encouraged to accumulate/hoard lots of logs beforfe you can do anything meaningful with them anyways...
So that's why logs stack to 10k
If we compare the two processes for the latter making lumber you have raw logs sitting around for longer to make a meaningful amount of lumber from them - waiting for trees to grow, waiting for labor pots to be sent or labor to regen and dumped into crafting.
But the oils... you can cheaply plant, cheaply upcraft as you go along and your stacking problems a solved.
Just a small bit of foresight required.
Furthermore you are encouraged to do this "crafting as you go" by the fact that the Flowers/Crops do not stack to 10k currently. All in all, the odds seem stacked in such a way that encourages this... and is part of the reason as to why I said you don't need to have plants and stuff stack to 10k... Then on the flip side doing the oils in this way lets you have labor spare to do other things with during the day and get stuff done... dumping solely into logs and lumber you feel like you're going nowhere...
Meanwhile, on the other hand, turning Logs into Lumber makes your stacking WORSE currently under the 10k stack system - 9k logs (1 stack) goes to 3k lumber (3 stacks !?). Again, this ENCOURAGES hoarding/accumulation of logs in addition to the high labor expense that must be paid to "process" the logs into lumber.
Again, just compare high labor costs mentioned ...
So again as I said it seems like you're trying to craft erenor entirely out of only your character's inventory and warehouse, rather than having houses/silos with storage chests...
Let me amend that, maybe you have 1 or 2 100-slot chests which are cheap enough for only 600credits.
So with maxed out character inventory and warehouse and 2x100slot chests... it's more than enough to probably craft erenor from entirely your pocket... you just need to plan when to upcraft and compress (or in the case of things like logs upgcraft and bloat...
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It's all well and good to propose "tiering" system for stacking but it will be difficult finding delineations thjat make sense...
Like, what would a T1 mat be... what then would be T2?
How do we build a case for something being T1 or T2 or T3.
Is it based off the tier the thing is used for in equipment crafting? --> well established Tiers of Polishes/Oils/Pigments required and related to certian series of levels of Obbsidian/crafted gear...
Small Seed --> Fine Lumber -- "T1" -- therefore the mats used are T1?
Viscous Glossy --> Nuri Forest Lumber -- "T2" -- therefore the mats used are T2?
Top down approach
Or do we go the other way (bottom up approach), something that cannot be made by any other method than using labor from the Harvesting Proficiencies (Farming, Gathering, Logging, Fishing, Mining) are T1, then the things made from those things are T2, and if an item needs an T2 items that means it's T3 (ie keep going up levels)
But then stuff like boss drops which are not generated in any other way are T1... so those that can and do stack should go to what 10k??? xDD
Is a T1 item it something where the item is Basic grade, so then following Grand, Rare, Arcane are going to be T2, T3, T4 and so on? Does that mean the ingredients to make the T1 item are then T1 mats which will be T1 stacked?
So far we've only considered equipment crafting...
What of other things like Pots, or just stuff used in other proficiencies...
The ability to make Animal Pens is determined for different prof levels of husbandy.
So is a Bamboo Coop/Duck Cage/Gooses Cage T1 since they are the first animal pen avaliable at 180k prof, and thus Sheep, Goat, Cow, Dairy, Yata, and Bear pens T2 which are avaliable at the T2 husbandry level of 230k....
Does that mean that Bamboo Stalk used to make the T1 cages is a T1 mat, and the same for Worms? Then, thus the mats used to make the T2 "pens" are T2 mats.... So Lumber is a T2 mat... I'd class it more as T1 with Logs being T0... xD
But if we use grades of the end item to determine tier of the ingredients then you get absurd conclusions... Assuming basic, grand, rare etc being T1, T2, T3, etc respectively No one would say that Royal Seeds and Scented Leafs are T4 mats but they are Arcane grade so...
Under this system what's the "highest" tier? T1, T2, T3 being 10k, 1k, 100 stacked sizes... but agian that would be silly since Rare grade correlating to T3 would only be 100 stack.... so then you're telling me Ginseng, Cactus, Saffron, Poppy, Quinoa etc should only stack to 100... how daft.
Then we must conclude there are only 2 tiers
10k worthy not not.
But then you'd want community to decide.... and good luck with getting us to decide on anything
I've been trying to convince people that Wool fits such a bill and therefore should be stacked to 10k with NO luck at all over the past year... Let alone doing that process for EVERY item that exists.And like I said before, there's NO need for certain things cause you just... use them quickly and easily...
Hugely complicated mess...
Then you need to add in the fact that since this is a custom change it will have to be applied to every appropriate item at every major update... and selectively do so following whatever tiering system you devise.... Yeah... Just easier to do to 10k everything like I said earlier...
Idk how the item database is setup but can you imagine doing that for each mat of which there are LOTS between each update...
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trapwhre02
Well-Known Member
Ever since 3.5 went live, I am having issues with Concussive Arrow not being 100% hit-rate anymore. I've seen others report the same issue.
https://i.gyazo.com/f8bb8968fe34da7b7c6a3d5a8a5ca778.mp4
https://i.gyazo.com/2ceae4033ee9220a251d8a99287c629e.mp4
https://i.gyazo.com/9241220d793ce46d72827073c42138c9.mp4
@Sparkle Would you adress this please ? The Flame Ancestral isn't working as intended and is not guaranteed to hit and it's been an issue since the launch of 3.5, over 50 days ago.
