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Tax increase (again) - Quick thought

WHY!? Why is this necessary???

"... further adjusted in the future..." will be too late for some. We do not have much storage, except for in our houses. We have otherwordly chests and the like to store bound items that we can never get again. We have furniture and decor that is bound and unique. We have special houses even. And we have tons of chests full of resources and stuff. If we lose that, we can't get it back. If i lose everything, if i'm forced out, there is no coming back from that, because i've already lost everything. This is taking away my only reason for logging in every day. What am i supposed to do, log in and look at the grass where i used to have a house?

I can barely afford my taxes already. It has taken a long time and multiple adjustments and strategizing and re-strategizing to find a balance to farm resources on my land to make gold to buy taxes from the auction house to pay for the land, balanced with all the farming/gathering labor and the tax crafting labor. It has been a struggle to pay for what i have. Why are you punishing me even more? I can't do more. I'm at my max limit. I can't afford more.

WHY???
I think the issue here is that the devs are severely overestimating the number of people the new patch is going to bring in. Basically, they assume the new people will spend enough money to replace the old. Part of the problem is the server numbers after a new patch is deceptive, it doesn't include player retention the weeks following the patch. Not to mention there is healthy competition in the MMO space, and let's be honest with ourselves. XLgames patches are already severely lacking in the content department, the "content" is mostly unlikable reworks. Adding custom unpopular reworks on pre-existing reworks that everyone already hates isn't going to help player retention.

Worst yet, this is going to have far-reaching implications for the economy, though it will take a month or two for that to sink in. The Silver-per-labor ratio will be better spent crafting taxes than doing packs/coinpurses. So expect people to craft taxes, dump them onto the auction house, and then log off. A number of people already do this but expect to see an uptick in this habit.

Expect to see a thread close, I think they're done listening.
 
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I think the issue here is that the devs are severely overestimating the number of people the new patch is going to bring in. Basically, they assume the new people will spend enough money to replace the old. Part of the problem is the server numbers after a new patch is deceptive, it doesn't include player retention the weeks following the patch. Not to mention there is healthy competition in the MMO space, and let's be honest with ourselves. XLgames patches are already severely lacking in the content department, the "content" is mostly unlikable reworks. Adding custom unpopular reworks on pre-existing reworks that everyone already hates isn't going to help player retention.

Worst yet, this is going to have far-reaching implications for the economy, though it will take a month or two for that to sink in. The Silver-per-labor ratio will be better spent crafting taxes than doing packs/coinpurses. So expect people to craft taxes, dump them onto the auction house, and then log off. A number of people already do this but expect to see an uptick in this habit.

Expect to see a thread close, I think they're done listening.
I'd like for them to tell us why. I feel very disposable, unwanted, and rejected. I guess i'm not the type of player they want here. That's fine and all, just makes me regret the hundreds of dollars i've given them so that i can play the way i play. Especially all the money i gave them just in the last few weeks. We both (husband and me) had a lot of fun in-game over the weekend, and now this. Feels like getting an eviction notice just when you were having fun redecorating your apartment.

Edit, personal note: As angry as i've been the last couple days, that anger is giving way to heartbreak now. My eyes are watery as i type this, as i've been looking around at all the stuff i have built, accomplished, worked hard for and achieved. I'm being kicked out of my community, kicked out of my home. That is what this is, for me. I can only tell my own story, and hope that everyone else will tell theirs.
 
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Just stupid this tax change. Drive away the people who are still really playing and enjoying it. Thank heavens I only have 40% monopoly taxes. Even they are too much for me when it comes to the prices of taxes on the market. And prices keep rising. Why are people not granted it when they put so much work, time, money and love into having a large property? Have the admins looked around? There is a lot of free land. What looks more sophisticated and well-groomed? 10 individual empty houses of 10 players who are not playing or a larger area that is built on, maintained and used? These empty house people don't really gamble or put money into it. I am really sorry about the beautiful areas that will probably disappear now. So that there is more space for house corpses.
 
That monopoly tax is normal for the extent of land they possess.

if you have 53 properties you have 53 properties all getting 20% increased tax. Its not progressive.


But, I already did the basic math of 53x20 = 1060, not 2205. And I noticed my land went up by 2x5, for having 11 properties, and 1x5 for having 10 properties. How is that not accumulative?

And Whitehat confirmed my theory.

10th buildings and over count toward the monopoly: 36 (total property) - 9 = 27
increase per properties % is based on the total count: 36 -> 15%/each
Monopoly (applied to every properties) = 27 * 15% = 405%


Anyhow, the system will change in a few hours. I'm thankful that this situation has been looked into properly.
 
But, I already did the basic math of 53x20 = 1060, not 2205. And I noticed my land went up by 2x5, for having 11 properties, and 1x5 for having 10 properties. How is that not accumulative?

And Whitehat confirmed my theory.




Anyhow, the system will change in a few hours. I'm thankful that this situation has been looked into properly.
Sasins calculation is not 53x20 or 44x20+44x15 ect.
Its 72-9 x 35
Which is what I said was incorrect.
Your land would go up by 5% at 10 and 10% at 11.
If you go to 20 buildings or more each building now adds 10% more each instead of 5%.
 
Sasins calculation is not 53x20 or 44x20+44x15 ect.
Its 72-9 x 35
Which is what I said was incorrect.
Your land would go up by 5% at 10 and 10% at 11.
If you go to 20 buildings or more each building now adds 10% more each instead of 5%.

Ah there were properties missing, I get it. Well it's all gonna change now anyway. Gonna pay more tax now with this updated system but at least it will prevent someone from placing 9 beanstalks, hopefully.
 
Well, the new change made me go from 50% to 78%, sweet!

Beside, the idea to tax the m2 instead of the # of building might not be that bad. But then you will have to remove or revert back old overtax for number of building, for the concept to make sense.

My take on this if you really want to change how tax is applied:
A mix of:
- reconsider old overtax system
- remove public building (both forced and choosed) from count (since everybody can benefit from them)
- based on how the the 2 previous are modified, adapt the #m2 exemption

That, or admit it was an overall misjudgement and revert the whole change. Bad call happens ;)
 
In my opinion, measures to raise taxes would not have been necessary. The market would have regulated it by itself and everyone would have had the chance to act accordingly. I wonder ... what did you (admins) think?
 
Well, the new change made me go from 50% to 78%, sweet!

Beside, the idea to tax the m2 instead of the # of building might not be that bad. But then you will have to remove or revert back old overtax for number of building, for the concept to make sense.

My take on this if you really want to change how tax is applied:
A mix of:
- reconsider old overtax system
- remove public building (both forced and choosed) from count (since everybody can benefit from them)
- based on how the the 2 previous are modified, adapt the #m2 exemption

That, or admit it was an overall misjudgement and revert the whole change. Bad call happens ;)
The land tax and building tax are in conjunction intentionally to restrict down how much property 1 person can own.
for this "remove public building (both forced and choosed) from count (since everybody can benefit from them)".
No. This would just be abused with that each object on a building can have restrictions set.
It affects heavy tax exempt buildings because people can acquire too many heavy tax exempt buildings.
 
My "land tax" is now 87%, nearly doubled, and i can not afford that.

As mentioned earlier, the devs are free to make their choice to do this.

I don't get a choice though. I lose all my stuff, i lose my reason for logging in. I'm kicked out of the game i've spent over 2 years playing. All the memories, all the adventures, all the "woo! i finally got this!" moments. You just destroyed that for me. "Just get rid of a few plots," you're thinking. Except that my plots are my game, and any removal of any plots is removal of my reason to log in.

Do what you must. I can't afford this, plain and simple. You want me out, you win.

(Sorry Whitehat. I know you don't want me to give up, but i have nothing left to say now.) 😢
 
The land tax and building tax are in conjunction intentionally to restrict down how much property 1 person can own.
for this "remove public building (both forced and choosed) from count (since everybody can benefit from them)".
No. This would just be abused with that each object on a building can have restrictions set.
It affects heavy tax exempt buildings because people can acquire too many heavy tax exempt buildings.


But what's so bad about that? These people have to do a lot to get it! Look at the market! Taxes are getting more expensive! These great players are challenged to compensate for this! Why do you want to break this about a crybaby named Havokitty? Is she gone and we're in trouble? You should focus on the players who are willing to pay. And not on those who are willing, if at all, to pay something. My tip ... leave it as it was and the rest will take care of itself
 
This new system is at least conceptually sound if you want to remove people who take up a lot of area now. However, it still makes no sense given that the server is half-dead and there's lots of room in practically every zone except the luxury larder zones, and the remaining Auroria zones. And the area allowed and tax rates are still ridiculous.

I used to do land demo grabs for profit a long time ago, when people were still buying land because it was scarce, but that was in 2019... It hasn't been a viable "career" for at least a whole year now, because there is so much land available. Now when I explore housing zones, I just alert new players to free empty spots instead.

Do you just want specific people like Workbench (who has the best crafting complex in Haranya, that I keep referring new players to every single time they ask about a public crafting house or a specific workstation) off the server?

Also, will you finally implement some kind of a capital tax for people who have too much gold, crafting resources, boss loot, and so on sitting in their chests and warehouses and not being distributed among the people?
 
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Also, will you finally implement some kind of a capital tax for people who have too much gold, crafting resources, boss loot, and so on sitting in their chests and warehouses and not being distributed among the people?
How about a tax for excessive player kills? A criminal tax for same-faction player kills? That hurts the economy worse than our public crafting houses and larder farms.

(P.S. This was joking... mostly. Same principle though.)
 
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As it stands 90% of my land is set to public or guild use. I maintain a complex of seedbed houses that are open for my guild to use, and a public armorer that is used regularly by new and established players frequently.
The increase to taxes makes this largely unsustainable and its most likely that the armorer will go, along with many of the seedbeds. a net loss for both my guild and the community.
What makes this even more of a kick to the teeth is that we had *just* spent a small fortune swapping 7 harvesters cottages for mushroom cottages, to reduce the tax rates to a more manageable level. So you're changing the rules on items that people have paid money for. If thats not a warning to others not to spend their money then i dont know what is.
Is the intent here for the devs to make housing zones resemble a ghost town? Pricing out the people that like to decorate, RP or keep open land for the community is a fucking terrible idea and this will not have the impact you're looking for. These are people growing crops, running mining drills and propping up an unstable economy. Not to mention the sudden increase in demand for taxes will spike the cost of those, which then fucks over any player that relies on the AH for their taxes.

Dreadful decisions made with no thought for wider implications. I feel like i started playing retail again.
 
As it stands 90% of my land is set to public or guild use. I maintain a complex of seedbed houses that are open for my guild to use, and a public armorer that is used regularly by new and established players frequently.
The increase to taxes makes this largely unsustainable and its most likely that the armorer will go, along with many of the seedbeds. a net loss for both my guild and the community.
What makes this even more of a kick to the teeth is that we had *just* spent a small fortune swapping 7 harvesters cottages for mushroom cottages, to reduce the tax rates to a more manageable level. So you're changing the rules on items that people have paid money for. If thats not a warning to others not to spend their money then i dont know what is.
Is the intent here for the devs to make housing zones resemble a ghost town? Pricing out the people that like to decorate, RP or keep open land for the community is a fucking terrible idea and this will not have the impact you're looking for. These are people growing crops, running mining drills and propping up an unstable economy. Not to mention the sudden increase in demand for taxes will spike the cost of those, which then fucks over any player that relies on the AH for their taxes.

Dreadful decisions made with no thought for wider implications. I feel like i started playing retail again.

I would say wait until prepaid taxes runs out because this is the kind of over thinked solution to a problem that don't exist in reality yet that is typical to us developers, once they realize 1000 new players is not even close to realistic and the building is on fire then they will probably fix it, in the meantime speak with your wallet.

Also to prove my point, there so much land open that after all this time i don't think i've read one post saying this is great or ppl saying "finally i can some land" or the classics this kind of thread bring, if this solution was generated by a real problem i would be posting this on page 60 not 3 after hundreds of posts in a flame war.

Devs may be right and in the near future this will be needed? is possible but this kinda of changes should be progressive and that progress should be managed by actual data analysis otherwise you are kicking your customers in the nuts for not apparent reason.
 
The tax changes are a solution nobody asked for to a problem we don't have. There's just no reason for NA to have this as the game is half dead anyway. Before the patch I was finding vast gobs of empty land in all kinds of zones - there was some in Lilyut that had been empty for months. Upcoming Larder changes in future patches take pressure off land even more.

The devs' single-minded dedication to driving away casual players is just breathtaking.
 
As it stands 90% of my land is set to public or guild use. I maintain a complex of seedbed houses that are open for my guild to use, and a public armorer that is used regularly by new and established players frequently.
The increase to taxes makes this largely unsustainable and its most likely that the armorer will go, along with many of the seedbeds. a net loss for both my guild and the community.
What makes this even more of a kick to the teeth is that we had *just* spent a small fortune swapping 7 harvesters cottages for mushroom cottages, to reduce the tax rates to a more manageable level. So you're changing the rules on items that people have paid money for. If thats not a warning to others not to spend their money then i dont know what is.
Is the intent here for the devs to make housing zones resemble a ghost town? Pricing out the people that like to decorate, RP or keep open land for the community is a fucking terrible idea and this will not have the impact you're looking for. These are people growing crops, running mining drills and propping up an unstable economy. Not to mention the sudden increase in demand for taxes will spike the cost of those, which then fucks over any player that relies on the AH for their taxes.

Dreadful decisions made with no thought for wider implications. I feel like i started playing retail again.

At least you have a large enough guild for everyone to share the load by everyone taking on a property or two, unlike Zeirlynn... Just a suggestion.
 
The land tax and building tax are in conjunction intentionally to restrict down how much property 1 person can own.
for this "remove public building (both forced and choosed) from count (since everybody can benefit from them)".
No. This would just be abused with that each object on a building can have restrictions set.
It affects heavy tax exempt buildings because people can acquire too many heavy tax exempt buildings.
Then let us convert the building blueprint into a public-locked version of the crafting-house, similar to a fellowship. Hell, you can even limit the number of them we can have...I mean you already do this with the solar scarecrows.
 
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