Now that 4.0 has started I’m just curious what the plans are for Hiram. Honestly my opinion is I hope the admins drop Hiram or nerf it entirely . The Hiram system destroys markets and eliminates the sandbox elements of this game, forcing players though a singular means of gearing up. What are others points of view.!! ? Let’s get them out there before 2 much work has been done with the next patch .
4.5 hiram
- Thread starter Papatuna
- Start date
Zing™
Active Member
Hiram itself is fine. The game is building around the removal of Obsidian over the next few patches, and I won't be hurrendously sad to see RNGesus go into semi-retirement for a bit. The way it was implemented was clunky and grindy, however. It doesn't *force* anyone to do anything, but people do it because it's waaay less painful to start than Obsidian or crafted so you can get into the game and play. Of course these days you just need to walk past the server as a new player and someone throws T5 divine at you, so there's that...
Hiram will need to be balanced against our custom Erenor, or the nerfs to Erenor removed.
Hiram will need to be balanced against our custom Erenor, or the nerfs to Erenor removed.
Aviendha
Well-Known Member
I agree with this only in the scenario when Hiram is introduced at the same time as the (slow) removal of obsidian and in combination with the nerfing of proficiencies in general.
On live, all crafts, including larceny, became less worth overtime due to various nerfs, but then people got forced to use larceny only, to be able to get gear.
There was no more choice of doing something you enjoy to earn gold. Better grind those mobs for gear and infusions or fall behind.
So please please please do not add HIram gear blindly, and do not change obsidian gear further. Do not force us to do only one thing, ruining the sandbox part of the game.
Beerson
Member
yeah hiram is a stupid idea that was implemented as a way to keep population on dead servers, it has no place here and only ruins the base principles of the game
however I don't see the admins miraculously starting to care for player feedback, so prepare yourselves for 5% nerf or even no nerf on hiram
however I don't see the admins miraculously starting to care for player feedback, so prepare yourselves for 5% nerf or even no nerf on hiram
Aviendha
Well-Known Member
Not sure why you phrase it this way, they did listen to many things said by players, just not everything. I can respect that, to some extent they have to make choices, especially because there's often 2 different views, or more, from the community.
Don’t add Hiram gear, If I wanted to play BDO I would be. It’s gonna kill the market and enconamy. I have faith that you will do the right thing here. It’s fun crafting and regrading, sometimes it sucks when you lose but it’s freaking awesome when you hit the big one. If it must be added it should be nerffed into the ground making it delphinad equivalent that way new players can gear up but not kill the market.
Zing™
Active Member
The game becomes built around Hiram and crafted - to not add Hiram would result in massive changes to support and I'm not sure that would pay off well. Library disappears soon enough and becomes an different dungeon with different gear to level. Whole new zones are added to support Hiram gear. The issue (as I see it) is less about NO HIRAM NEVER RAWR, but more how does it get implemented better than on live.
While 4.5 is still time away and not going to have full discussion for it yet, neither will we make an input to say what will happen until closer to release. We are interested in how people think hiram gear from 4.5 should be handled as it is a very big turning point for ArcheRage.
I would like to make note of a few things.
Future patches introduce new skills, mechanics, enemies and gear progression.
So keep in mind how your idea affects the patches that came after 4.5.
I would like to make note of a few things.
Future patches introduce new skills, mechanics, enemies and gear progression.
So keep in mind how your idea affects the patches that came after 4.5.
RogueChoi
Active Member
I want to see a version beyond 4.0, so if we're not getting Hiram, I won't be on this server. I'm not sticking around for delayed content updates or lack of version upgrades because people don't want a game to change or evolve over time. Boost crafting or make custom changes there. Don't nerf or change or gut Hiram. The game's gear progression changes drastically on many fronts from 4.5 and onward to different sets. (Ayanad becomes a hybrid concept of Hiram and Erenor, Obsidian gets discontinued for good reason to focus on Ayanad/Erenor/Hiram/New Lib/mistsong gear).
If any of you people cared about crafting and tradeskills not being a part of endgame gear progression, why did you make sure our Erenor gear was nerfed in 3.5? LOL
TLDR: Stop gutting/nerfing new content,focus on buffing and keeping old up to date with the new. Except things like Obsidian that's meant to go away, just let it happen, jeez.
If any of you people cared about crafting and tradeskills not being a part of endgame gear progression, why did you make sure our Erenor gear was nerfed in 3.5? LOL
TLDR: Stop gutting/nerfing new content,focus on buffing and keeping old up to date with the new. Except things like Obsidian that's meant to go away, just let it happen, jeez.
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??? Crafting and trade skills are still being used, and that awkward moment where the Erenor nerf made it so people didn't HAVE to make an Erenor to be competitive with those who had the money to make one. So your point is moot right there.
I share the same point of view as Choi on this: stop gutting new content.
People get very stuck in their ways, and are convinced that new is bad. Not so in the case of Archeage. Some new was bad, the Cargo system and a lot of the small QOL losses of 3.0/3.5 among them. A lot of it is good. 5.3 and beyond did great things with Combat and balance, and the new style of Quest gear and Hiram is actually pretty cool. It rewards *time* investment, without shitting all over your previous efforts.
4.5 was a midway change between the old and the new. The new makes the game far better, and much less of a "who swiped harder" fest.
Personally I say bring on the Hiram, but leave Obsidian in the game as well. Let it be craftable. Having 3 equipment sets actually wouldn't be that bad of a thing, as it would allow people to choose their meta. It would be as simple as importing the recipes back into the 4.5 patch. Obsidian could even be modified to be slightly easier to obtain, to offset the weaknesses of it in comparison to Hiram and Erenor.
However, Erenor should remain at the top of the ladder, and should keep the statistics it was naturally given in 4.5 and beyond, due to the effort and gold required to actually make it. Later patches make it slightly easier, but the crafted tier should be the better tier.
The disappearance of Player Nations kind of stinks, and some of the more organic content as well (please stop harpoons from breaking that's just stupid), but a lot of positives come out of the later patches, with much much better systems. And a 64 bit client. Please, please please lets hurry up and get the 64 bit client.
People get very stuck in their ways, and are convinced that new is bad. Not so in the case of Archeage. Some new was bad, the Cargo system and a lot of the small QOL losses of 3.0/3.5 among them. A lot of it is good. 5.3 and beyond did great things with Combat and balance, and the new style of Quest gear and Hiram is actually pretty cool. It rewards *time* investment, without shitting all over your previous efforts.
4.5 was a midway change between the old and the new. The new makes the game far better, and much less of a "who swiped harder" fest.
Personally I say bring on the Hiram, but leave Obsidian in the game as well. Let it be craftable. Having 3 equipment sets actually wouldn't be that bad of a thing, as it would allow people to choose their meta. It would be as simple as importing the recipes back into the 4.5 patch. Obsidian could even be modified to be slightly easier to obtain, to offset the weaknesses of it in comparison to Hiram and Erenor.
However, Erenor should remain at the top of the ladder, and should keep the statistics it was naturally given in 4.5 and beyond, due to the effort and gold required to actually make it. Later patches make it slightly easier, but the crafted tier should be the better tier.
The disappearance of Player Nations kind of stinks, and some of the more organic content as well (please stop harpoons from breaking that's just stupid), but a lot of positives come out of the later patches, with much much better systems. And a 64 bit client. Please, please please lets hurry up and get the 64 bit client.
Aviendha
Well-Known Member
"meant to go away" -> afaik this only happened on retail because they tried to close the gap between p2w and f2p, and to change the core of ArcheAge. It didn't work out they way they intended it to, in the end it resulted in them creating AAU instead of "fixing" the old ArcheAge. Khrolan's explanation about this was very elaborate in one of their streams.
So no, imho, it is not meant to go away at all on ArcheRage seeing as people came here to this server just because they didn't like how the retail ArcheAge got messed up with trino trying (edit: and failing) to "fix" the p2w.
As I said. I just want our devs to carefully think about this, considering our opinions, and to not put through changes just because it happened on retail:
Edit: Well said, choice is important in a sandbox game.
Zecen
Active Member
If you want Hiram and skill changes, why don't you just go to retail, the thing that most of us came to AR to avoid? Hiram destroys a lot, makes EVERYONE grind for the same crap, it is awful. If Hiram comes, nerf it.
Make it Erenor-Ayanad-Obsidan then Hiram. Hiram should be at the bottom because its easier to obtain and there is no rng with regrading.
And many of these 'skill changes' nerfed the hell out of some classes, made Defense tree utterly useless, and I don't want that to hit AR at all. Many passives were destroyed in the process along with really good skills.
Make it Erenor-Ayanad-Obsidan then Hiram. Hiram should be at the bottom because its easier to obtain and there is no rng with regrading.
And many of these 'skill changes' nerfed the hell out of some classes, made Defense tree utterly useless, and I don't want that to hit AR at all. Many passives were destroyed in the process along with really good skills.
havockitty
Active Member
Hiram should be nerfed and obsidian should stay just to give ppl options. Remember that we will get Erenor T2 at some point that is superior to obsidian, that would create situation where we have Nerfed Hiram for starting players that dont demand super high gold investment semi viable obsidian and superior Erenor that should be endgame gear. This would be healthy situation i think, just remember to adjust also cost of lvling hiram into this. And for this that think hiram should be entirely removed. I agree and i wish for that but from patches have entire zones builded around lvling up hiram gear u will get empty useless zones.
C
This is true that the zones might be empty but the problem with Hiram is that it is a system that kills all the other systems. While those Hiram zones may be busy on live , nothing else in terms of content is happening because simply it is the only effective way to gear. Any new system added should be good enough to insentivise people to do it, but it shouldn’t kill all other preexisting systems. Hiram needs to be balanced so that it is a path you could take but not the only viable path to take .
This is true that the zones might be empty but the problem with Hiram is that it is a system that kills all the other systems. While those Hiram zones may be busy on live , nothing else in terms of content is happening because simply it is the only effective way to gear. Any new system added should be good enough to insentivise people to do it, but it shouldn’t kill all other preexisting systems. Hiram needs to be balanced so that it is a path you could take but not the only viable path to take .
RogueChoi
Active Member
I came to AR to avoid supporting Trion and their gutting of content and patches, like my friends who came with me. We didn't come to AR to be stuck in a 3.0 time capsule server LOL. There's another time capsule server if you wanna be stuck in 3.0. Rage is great because they're actually attempting to progress through the patches and customize them without gutting them.
Zecen
Active Member
Sure advance but correct me if I'm wrong, after 3.0 is when the game started to lose players due to heavy nerfs and stupid choices. AR staff will have to be very careful with how they approach these patches due to this.
If hiram does come it should be weaker then obsidian and obsidian should stay.
And those skill changes should be combed carefully because some are good and some destroy.
If hiram does come it should be weaker then obsidian and obsidian should stay.
And those skill changes should be combed carefully because some are good and some destroy.
Zing™
Active Member
Hiram was an attempt to stop the rot. Did it work? Kinda sorta ish maybe. It's hard to separate it from the rest of the crap that Trion pulled.
Hiram will be weaker than obsidian, but then it will eventually get stronger - it kinda has to given the endless tiers it goes through. I think Hiram is a good thing in concept, and is great for newer players (leaving out the insanity of our support packs because... I just can't with that). I'm not opposed to Obsidian staying, more choice is always good. Maybe Obby can be moved to the 'crafting' upgrade system, where it doesn't explode but becomes crystallised? Not a fully formed idea, just spitballing to see how it can be made more competitive.
Without seeing what XL's endgame for Hiram is it's a bit difficult to see where to take it as it's an evolving system - and an evolving system that that game has been building itself around. I think removing Hiram altogether would just gut half the content or the reason for it for the next year or two. It's not a bad mechanic in theory, but it was implemented poorly and did suck all the air out of the room in terms of gearing. I realise I'm not providing amazing solutions here, but I think it's still of value to sound a note of caution.
Aviendha
Well-Known Member
No it didn't really work, or there wouldn't have been AAU, as I explained:
HNIC_Steamroller
Active Member
Hiram destroys sandbox/sandpark elements of the game. It limits the crafting economy by forcing people to grind the same stuff to get the same gear. I think either a huge nerf to Hiram (and/or un-nerfing Erenor or buffing Ayanad/Obsidian) would offset that balance.
The cool thing about ArcheAge is that there are a lot of choices that people can make about how to progress. Want to farm? Cool. Want to run packs? Cool. Want to craft? Cool. Want to raise sunken ships? Cool. Want to fish? Cool. Want to steal from other people? Cool. Want to farm purses? Cool. Want to swipe? Cool.
Making an obvious best-in-slot gear set with the same progression path that doesn't require much gold or really any crafting limits opportunities for players to enjoy the game the way that they want to enjoy it if they want to stay competitive.
The cool thing about ArcheAge is that there are a lot of choices that people can make about how to progress. Want to farm? Cool. Want to run packs? Cool. Want to craft? Cool. Want to raise sunken ships? Cool. Want to fish? Cool. Want to steal from other people? Cool. Want to farm purses? Cool. Want to swipe? Cool.
Making an obvious best-in-slot gear set with the same progression path that doesn't require much gold or really any crafting limits opportunities for players to enjoy the game the way that they want to enjoy it if they want to stay competitive.