What's new

4.5 hiram

Elohel

Member
No it didn't really work, or there wouldn't have been AAU, as I explained:
I know if I wanted a source of truth and competence in Archeage, Khrolan would be my first stop.

o_O

Like I said, Hiram needs to be implemented differently, or adjusted. It can slot in there as another option without necessarily becoming the path of least resistance. But we gotta be aware that the rest of the game systems start to funnel people down that path, and it's a biiig job to start re-itemising and balancing the entire game (might be a worthy one though).
 

DrRageQuit

Member
Any new gear that is added to the game should be done so as an alternative route with its own pros/cons and should be balanced accordingly.

Forcing people down a certain route at the cost of all their previous effort destroys variety and denys people the choice that makes the game great.

My opinion would be to add Hiram, but make its stats somewhere inbetween ayanad and obsidian. If people are to have a relatively low cost alternative gear path that allows much more variety to choose the stats they want, it should come with a slight cost to those stats themselves.
 

Aviendha

Active Member
I know if I wanted a source of truth and competence in Archeage, Khrolan would be my first stop.

o_O
I understand your misgivings regarding my statements, but he did elaborately explain how their team worked on this and how it didn't work out and they chose to create AAU. He was a part of it and he shared his experience, but anecdotal evidence isn't enough for you?
 

Elohel

Member
I understand your misgivings regarding my statements, but he did elaborately explain how their team worked on this and how it didn't work out and they chose to create AAU. He was a part of it and he shared his experience, but anecdotal evidence isn't enough for you?
It's Khrolan, I wouldn't believe him if he told me the sea was wet, and I wouldn't recommend anyone else does either. I am curious about AAU - If this was created as a response to Hiram being bad, is Hiram different there? I only looked at it cursorily to see that the changes they were proposing weren't anywhere near enough to make retail worth it over AR. If it's still the same there, it's not really relevant.
 

Aviendha

Active Member
It's Khrolan, I wouldn't believe him if he told me the sea was wet, and I wouldn't recommend anyone else does either. I am curious about AAU - If this was created as a response to Hiram being bad, is Hiram different there? I only looked at it cursorily to see that the changes they were proposing weren't anywhere near enough to make retail worth it over AR. If it's still the same there, it's not really relevant.
Yea it is different on AAU, every new char gets a full set of gear that can be upgraded into hiram, including a very easy way to fix the first 2 stats to be the ones you want before it's set in stone when it gets to hiram stage. So basically you'd mostly grind infusions, unless you want extra weapons for weapon swapping or if you want to switch with leather and plate, for example.

In other words, it is gear grind from lv1 till end game. No need for other proficiencies than larceny, almost :')
 

Crossi

New Member
no Hiram gear................................................................................!

(if u really want it ingame, nerf it 30-40% , and make its leveling super easy .. make THIS the best way for beginers to get some good starting gear except giving divine upgradable and regradable obsidian gear.)
 

Thinking

Member
I believe hiram is a good concept and I'm all for seeing more gear related options than just the traditional obsidian and crafted paths.

I think some of the concerns regarding hiram being too strong are warranted, hiram should definitely be capped at the tier 2 (up to divine) level for a considerable amount of time. Divine t2 hiram won't render obsidian completely obsolete unless you only had maybe divine or epic, in which case you've probably not invested much effort into gearing or haven't been efficient at gearing in the very least; if you fall into this bucket you should consider hiram a positive.

High tier obsidians of legendary or potentially epic+ grade will still be viable... at least in the weapon slot, if hiram is only implemented to tier 2. Epic / Tier 3 hiram (released in 5.0 update I believe) is really the breaking point where hiram will essentially invalidate any other gear path until synthesized library and t2 erenor (if it is unnerfed) is introduced. I would hold off on t3 or t4 hiram until these other options are introduced and not release it beforehand.

4.5 and the patches following it definitely changed ArcheAge, however I would argue that it was generally for the better. It just took a while and didn't all happen at once. The devs have already stated that this server won't necessarily have a "final" patch, but rather gradually continue through them with custom tweaks. As the players of the server, let's embrace the continuance of updates and give our input onto how to make them even better.
 
Divine t2 hiram won't render obsidian completely obsolete unless you only had maybe divine or epic, in which case you've probably not invested much effort into gearing or haven't been efficient at gearing in the very least
lol @ "if you only have epic obsidian you're not trying"


4.5 and the patches following it definitely changed ArcheAge, however I would argue that it was generally for the better.
I think you're the only person I've ever seen have this opinion. 4.5 was the beginning of the end for a LOT of people.
 

Trepetron

New Member
I feel Hiram gear should be implemented into the game NOT removed. Now before you go blowing me out, Think about it! How many of you posting here complain in game, at forums, on discord, ect about there being a lack of pvp?! The answer: MOST of you! The introduction of hiram gear will bring the possibility to obtain fairly decent gear that is easy to farm. Meaning - Those that dont have endless hours of time to sit and play, and grind gold, or try to enjoy other aspects of the game, will be able to obtain this gear, and grade it accordingly, easily, thus bringing the potential chance for MORE pvp. Will everyone do this? Of course not, you still have your die hard farmers! But pvp will increase as these players that do farm it, advance! I do not however agree with how Hiram gear was utilized to wreck obsidian gear in other places! my opinion on that will be listed later.

Erenor gear I disagree with this nerf that Erenor gear received. I am sorry but if ANYONE is going to take the time, and GOLD to make decent Erenor gear then YES it should be a little more OP than any other gear, because of the expense it takes to do so. Sorry if that offends you, but thats my opinion (you get what you pay for). For those of you not familiar with erenor gear, erenor gear is highly expensive to make and grade.
Now the nerf did not happen in 4.5 it actually happened in 4.0. This needs to be corrected in 4.5!

Obsidian gear Needs to be slightly better than Hiram but not equal to Erenor. As i said previously, there are ALOT of players that went down the path of obsidian, and allowing Hiram gear to supersede Obsidian will kill it for MANY players. They already have to deal with erenor gear being more OP than obsidain, why double nuke them?! THERE MUST BE an advantage to making obsidian gear vs. Hiram! Also reduce the amount of mats it takes to make obsidian gear as well. The amount of Abyssal crystals it now takes (4.0) to advance obsidian gear is ridiculous! Not all players can sit and grind those things in just a few days. For some players it takes months! Whether it be real life related or just lack of interest to grind like that, there are players that do not want to spend that much time in dungeons. Fix it please!!
Please make sure obsidian gear remains viable so that current players that have spent endless hours farming obsidian mats, grinding that gear, and fighting the ridiculous regrade system for obsidian, did not do so in vain! Personally I am not a fan of obsidian gear because of this, but there are a lot of players here that did it, this should not be overlooked.

I feel the trading system (Trade packs) needs to be left alone as well. Not sure if the nerf began in 4.5, but i do know it happened! Trade packs are a VERY important and often used gold making system, LEAVE IT ALONE!! No i am not an avid pack runner, but here is my reasoning. You will not only be clipping the ones actually running the packs, but you will be clipping a VERY important part of the pvp system itself. How many players pray on pack runners? By land or by sea, many of you do it! So nerfing this system will clip the game in more ways then one.
Not sure if this happened in 4.5 - PLEASE DO NOT put that reject of a system in, where larder packs have a timer on them. This may just be a rumor i heard, or that it happened in 4.5, but what this system did is, once you pulled up a larder pack, you had "X" amount of minutes to turn it in or it started depreciating in value. THIS IS JUST RIDICULOUS!! Again i am not 100% sure this actually happened, but if it did, PLEASE DO NOT DO IT!!

As for the auction house, PLEASE do not implement that the system were people can buy/post partial stacks on the auction house. This will DESTROY the auction house competition. Let me explain. You have these players that absolutely insist on destroying auction house prices (they find it funny), or players that refuse to pay full price! So they post a large stack of an item on the auction house for an extremely low price driving prices down. Now seeing that people can buy partial stacks, players will just buy from that extremely low prices stack, instead of paying actual prices, which in return, anyone that is trying to sell an item now is FORCED to underbid that price, thus prices will crash!

From personal experience, i left at patch 4.5 because the changes made to the game were just sickening! I am curious to see what happens on rage at that point. So far the dev team has done a fairly decent job of making sure we get what we want and i am sure they will listen to what people are saying, and not just the majority, the little guys to! 4.5 and above wrecked it for many players.

These are just some of the things i have seen and/or heard about when it comes to patch 4.5 and above. I am sorry if my opinion offends some, but this is just how i see it! I am curious and kind of excited to see how 4.5 and above plays out on Rage.
 

Kezz

Active Member
I think the 4.5 patch really killed the game in general. I'm not going to lie, I'm nervous for its release.

I remember on the liver server that was it... the end for the most part. I'm not sure there are enough changes you could make to 4.5 that would fix it. It really was the Graveyard Patch for the game.
 

Aviendha

Active Member
I feel Hiram gear should be implemented into the game NOT removed.
The general consensus in this thread, so far as I understood it, is that we don't want the exact same 4.5 patch as the one that got implemented on the live servers. This does not necessarily mean that we all want hiram gear to be removed.

Note that I said, "don't add it blindly" and that I request that they do not change the current gear available in the game. As someone else noted, by removing gears you remove choice and therefore go against the purpose of what a sandbox game is.

Extra info on the removal of choice:
My experience from live server is that I worked on my gear for four years, only for it to become obsolete. It's useless. So ye it's super nice that new people can get their gear easier.. But for me personally it just felt as if both current and new players were forced into a certain direction. That's not what a sandbox game is for.
 

Trepetron

New Member
My experience from live server is that I worked on my gear for four years, only for it to become obsolete. It's useless. So ye it's super nice that new people can get their gear easier.. But for me personally it just felt as if both current and new players were forced into a certain direction. That's not what a sandbox game is for.
Hence the reason i said obsidian NEEDS to be a factor. You guys worked hard and long on your gear and in some cases, probably still working on your gear. That needs to be recognized, and not rendered useless.
The only reason i support Hiram is to give new players/ players unable to achieve high end gear, a chance to match up in pvp/pve situations, because as of now, they get the bum's handed to them and they run to farms, and that is where they stay. I have seen this behavior before, and i am now starting to notice it again.


I think the 4.5 patch really killed the game in general. I'm not going to lie, I'm nervous for its release.

I remember on the liver server that was it... the end for the most part. I'm not sure there are enough changes you could make to 4.5 that would fix it. It really was the Graveyard Patch for the game.
There is a lot of work that needs to be done to this next patch, and i hope the Dev's take their time and make it work right, as stated above, 4.5 to me as well as others here, was the beginning of the end. I really enjoy this game, and i would hate for it to die over this patch.
AKA: dont rush this patch!
 

Yolobro

New Member
This is probably not going to be done with one simple solution. I think they gotta figure out how to introduce Hiram without removing Obsidian. Make it another way to gear up instead of the only way to gear up. Another thing is the new content requires higher gearscore players and Hiram helps attain that. So you might have to boost the old gear to make it viable. Do we really want to get rid of regrade scrolls entirely? Many have said the Hiram update makes about 90% of the game useless. Hard work is thrown in the trash. One suggestion that might help is making it so you use regrade scrolls on hiram gear until it reaches Divine. Or make it so you use regrade scrolls on the gear after divine.
 

Zecen

Member
or just make it weaker then obsidian, so people who still want better gear will work towards obsidian instead.
like example:
Cloth Hiram Divine
physical defense: 550
magical defense 2200
spirit: 70

Cloth Obsidian Divine
physical defense 700
magical defense 2700
spirit 90

Cloth Ayanad Divine
physical defense 950
magic defense 3100
spirit 110

Cloth Erenor Divine
physical defense 1200
magic defense 3600
spirit 140

something like that, example of course so my numbers wont reflect the actual stats in game and since hiram has many awakenings make sure that its either taken out or nerfed to where the final awakening still reflects like this
 

vulgrr

Active Member
or just make it weaker then obsidian, so people who still want better gear will work towards obsidian instead.
like example:
Cloth Hiram Divine
physical defense: 550
magical defense 2200
spirit: 70

Cloth Obsidian Divine
physical defense 700
magical defense 2700
spirit 90

Cloth Ayanad Divine
physical defense 950
magic defense 3100
spirit 110

Cloth Erenor Divine
physical defense 1200
magic defense 3600
spirit 140

something like that, example of course so my numbers wont reflect the actual stats in game and since hiram has many awakenings make sure that its either taken out or nerfed to where the final awakening still reflects like this
This is not a good idea at all. Gutting new armor just because it is "easier" to obtain is not the way to go about this, at all.

Obsidian armor provides benefits that Hiram and Erenor do not, with generally much more utility than both. Obsidian may need a *SLIGHT* buff to either methods for obtaining it or to some stats (i'm talking like a 5% max buff), but gutting the new content is stupid.

Erenor remains the top tier armor as part of the crafted route in every release of live.

Obsidian remains the armor easiest to obtain via Mob farming, and is only subject to regrade RNG, which becomes much more forgiving in later patches. The best route for this is to leave it in the game via recipes and drops, and to monitor the statistics to see if it needs a buff.

Hiram is still subject to RNG rolls on each tier up, still making it difficult to obtain exactly what you want. It is subject to the same RNG as synthesis gear.


Stop gutting new content in favor of keeping your old content. New technology replaces old in real life literally every day. People have to work to upgrade to the new, lest they fall behind. If Hiram is viewed as too powerful, then do the work to get the gear.

Learn. Change. Adapt. That's how you survive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nyk

Zecen

Member
This is not a good idea at all. Gutting new armor just because it is "easier" to obtain is not the way to go about this, at all.

Obsidian armor provides benefits that Hiram and Erenor do not, with generally much more utility than both. Obsidian may need a *SLIGHT* buff to either methods for obtaining it or to some stats (i'm talking like a 5% max buff), but gutting the new content is stupid.

Erenor remains the top tier armor as part of the crafted route in every release of live.

Obsidian remains the armor easiest to obtain via Mob farming, and is only subject to regrade RNG, which becomes much more forgiving in later patches. The best route for this is to leave it in the game via recipes and drops, and to monitor the statistics to see if it needs a buff.

Hiram is still subject to RNG rolls on each tier up, still making it difficult to obtain exactly what you want. It is subject to the same RNG as synthesis gear.


Stop gutting new content in favor of keeping your old content. New technology replaces old in real life literally every day. People have to work to upgrade to the new, lest they fall behind. If Hiram is viewed as too powerful, then do the work to get the gear.

Learn. Change. Adapt. That's how you survive.
I'm curious, what is it obsidian offers that is better then hiram? As far as I know hiram offers resilience, hp, crit rates, etc. It may be RNG to reroll the stats but as soon as u get them it's good. Plus no break means its easier then obsidian imo. With drop rate buffs it's probably not hard to obtain hiram.
And after working 2 years for my stuffs I shouldn't be forced to work yet again to change my gear. If hiram is stronger why would anyone go the rng route of obsidian
 

vulgrr

Active Member
I meant to say obsidian *weapons* provide benefits that Hiram and Erenor do not. Where as the obsidian armor provides set stats that aren't RNG rolls, but are still very very good. Sorry about that, was typing at work.

As for the no break stuff, yes, but again, new technology. You have to adapt to the new metas or else the game gets stale. And regrade rates are much better in newer versions of the game too, so if obsidian stays you can get even better stuff.

The point is, your old work shouldn't have a bearing on new stuff. Technically speaking, everyone has to put in the same amount of work for the new stuff. It happens in games all the time. New stuff is superior to the old. If people adhered to keeping the old stuff as superior, just because people did work, there would be no point in new releases, and the game would die.
 
Top