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ArcheRage 4.7 (development-release info)

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Sparkle

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I 100% agree! I stupidly did not notice the "removed" portion of the recipe. I thought it was 1 charcoal added to the recipe. This is bad and 100% should go back to the way it was or just add a charcoal to the recipe. What is the point of prof/crafting/farming and working our way to max prof if we just shoulder out crafting in this way. As has been mentioned by myself and others we need to find way to keep crafting with new patches or the economy will suffer and we will lose players.
The items that were removed from these recipes are still required in other crafts. So farmers can keep growing them. Farming doesn't suddenly becomes useless due to removal of that plants from these crafts. But if we remove charcoal, it will just drop in price even more. I explained why in my above post from yesterday.
And nothing changes for the crafters as they can still craft the same pots, but use new recipes for them.
If the suggestion is to keep everything in the pots and just add charcoal, that can be done. But we don't think that is what players will want.
 

Derano

New Member
Can I ask, why do you need to store packs on your land for ages instead of selling them within 3 days after crafted? If you are not going to sell them, then there is no reason to craft. And 3 days is more than enough to move and deliver packs with no hurry.
You also say - just get rid of the timers. But you don't think about many other players that would be glad to get an extra bonus for this activity and be rewarded more for them being fast and active.
I'm not the OP of this question but I'll tell you my thoughts.

I'm a relatively new player, only been around a few months. I'm a carebear for the most part, don't care for PVP. One of the most effective ways of making gold I've found is to craft larders in Ahnimar and run them through Hellswamp and Halcy when they both go to peace simultaneously. But because larders take days to mature, it can sometimes take a week or more for the larders to be ready and for the HS/Halcy peace window to line up. I am a reasonably casual player, so I can't constantly monitor the server for when the zones are going to peace, nor can I always be online when they do.

This change in trade packs effectively makes Ahnimar larders worthless, as well as the land they're crafted on. Yes, I could get lucky and have the stars align when Halcy and HS go to peace while I have ready-to-harvest larders, but it's a major "if". The alternative is to run packs through contested zones. I am not big on the gear grind; I like the peaceful aspects of this game and they're the main reasons I play it. There is zero chance I can survive even one moderately geared player attack. This makes risking a dangerous run an even less profitable venture for me because not only will I lose the packs I made but I'm also out the time. And all this being the case, my land in Ahnimar is basically worthless, since I am strongly incentivized not to make packs there.

I believe this change is severely punishing to players who mainly craft and run packs as their primary income in the game. It forces them to be "on the clock" constantly and be stressed about making their runs, which is unfair to players who live in different time zones or, you know, have a job and a life outside the game. Or, it forces them to engage in PVP they are neither prepared for gear-wise nor interested in generally. I don't understand why this change is even necessary. Who is it helping, besides the whales? And I guess I answered my own question. If you want to reward people for moving their packs quickly, fine. Let there be a gold bonus for turning them in within an hour of crafting or something. But don't put timers on packs. That helps literally no one, and ruins one of the main aspects of fun in the game for players like myself. If this change is actually implemented and is as bad as I think it's going to be, it will effectively kill the game for me, and I will have no choice but to quit. I have loved this game so much since getting back into it this year, but these changes are game-breaking for me. Please reconsider it.
 

Zecen

Active Member
I dont know, maybe the fact that most people in this thread was against the timers at all, and how it affected the pack economy negatively. Not sure why its anyones business why anyone decides to stage their packs 3+ days and the fact that since day ONE that its been that way, and now all of a sudden its silly? I do not stage packs a lot myself, but i am sure others do. If there is a bonus that is nice, but it does affect others who stage. Will have to see how this custom change goes.
Again im happy with everything else, but i just despised when i learned about that timer thing in retail. i just dont like it ~shrugs~
 

DrRageQuit

Active Member
Unfortunately, there are no good ways to leave mysterious crates for them not to be abused by a small group of players.
If putting in some effort to be at the spawn point when they spawn is considered abuse, can we please remove Kraken, Levi, dgs and basically everything else that spawns on a timer? o_O
On a more serious note, would appreciate something being done about the vyrava mob packs.

But if we remove charcoal, it will just drop in price even more.
The price of charcoal has been steadily increasing for weeks now. It wasnt so long ago that you could buy charcs for <1g/ea. The current lowest price is 1g55, which is going to have a significant impact on the cost of crafting potions.
 

Sparkle

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Staff member
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If putting in some effort to be at the spawn point when they spawn is considered abuse, can we please remove Kraken, Levi, dgs and basically everything else that spawns on a timer? o_O
On a more serious note, would appreciate something being done about the vyrava mob packs.


The price of charcoal has been steadily increasing for weeks now. It wasnt so long ago that you could buy charcs for <1g/ea. The current lowest price is 1g55, which is going to have a significant impact on the cost of crafting potions.
You are again forgetting about the other 2 updates that will increase the amount of charcoal in game, so supply of charcoal will increase.
 

Sparkle

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
I'm not the OP of this question but I'll tell you my thoughts.

I'm a relatively new player, only been around a few months. I'm a carebear for the most part, don't care for PVP. One of the most effective ways of making gold I've found is to craft larders in Ahnimar and run them through Hellswamp and Halcy when they both go to peace simultaneously. But because larders take days to mature, it can sometimes take a week or more for the larders to be ready and for the HS/Halcy peace window to line up. I am a reasonably casual player, so I can't constantly monitor the server for when the zones are going to peace, nor can I always be online when they do.

This change in trade packs effectively makes Ahnimar larders worthless, as well as the land they're crafted on. Yes, I could get lucky and have the stars align when Halcy and HS go to peace while I have ready-to-harvest larders, but it's a major "if". The alternative is to run packs through contested zones. I am not big on the gear grind; I like the peaceful aspects of this game and they're the main reasons I play it. There is zero chance I can survive even one moderately geared player attack. This makes risking a dangerous run an even less profitable venture for me because not only will I lose the packs I made but I'm also out the time. And all this being the case, my land in Ahnimar is basically worthless, since I am strongly incentivized not to make packs there.

I believe this change is severely punishing to players who mainly craft and run packs as their primary income in the game. It forces them to be "on the clock" constantly and be stressed about making their runs, which is unfair to players who live in different time zones or, you know, have a job and a life outside the game. Or, it forces them to engage in PVP they are neither prepared for gear-wise nor interested in generally. I don't understand why this change is even necessary. Who is it helping, besides the whales? And I guess I answered my own question. If you want to reward people for moving their packs quickly, fine. Let there be a gold bonus for turning them in within an hour of crafting or something. But don't put timers on packs. That helps literally no one, and ruins one of the main aspects of fun in the game for players like myself. If this change is actually implemented and is as bad as I think it's going to be, it will effectively kill the game for me, and I will have no choice but to quit. I have loved this game so much since getting back into it this year, but these changes are game-breaking for me. Please reconsider it.
Looks like you misunderstood how it works. Timer starts only when pack is crafted. You are speaking about 3 days mature period for larders. But that is not the final crafting stage, it's still one of the crafting stages and has no timers. The actual timers start when you have a fully crafted pack. So only when you get your "Ahnimar Aged Salve", for example, the 3 days timer will start. That will be enough for you to find a perfect combination of peace zones and time for delivery. 3 days timer is good even for slow and lazy delivery with a 0 hurry.
 

Zeirlynn

Member
Adjusted the recipes available from Apothecary's Villa.
  • Mossy Pool: removed Iris, Thistle, Cornflower, and Aloe; added 1 Charcoal Stabilizer.
  • Kraken's Might: removed Aloe, Cornflower, Thistle, and Iris; added 1 Charcoal Stabilizer.
  • Desert Fire: removed Lavender, Mushroom, Narcissus, and Lily; added 1 Charcoal Stabilizer.
  • Nui's Nova: removed Ginkgo Leaf, Lotus, Mushroom, and Lavender; added 1 Charcoal Stabilizer.
  • Deluxe Sandwich: removed Barley, Garlic, Yam, and Strawberry; added 1 Charcoal Stabilizer.
  • Hearty Soup: removed Barley, Tomato, Pumpkin, and Rosemary; added 1 Charcoal Stabilizer.
It says "from Apothecary's Villa." Does this mean that the original ingredients will still be used at the Alchemy Table, Cooking Tools, and Multipurpose Workbench, giving farmers the option of still using the crops? Or are the recipes changed there also?
 

Sparkle

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Staff member
Administrator
It says "from Apothecary's Villa." Does this mean that the original ingredients will still be used at the Alchemy Table, Cooking Tools, and Multipurpose Workbench, giving farmers the option of still using the crops? Or are the recipes changed there also?
That change is only for crafts from Apothecary's Villa.
 

Derano

New Member
Looks like you misunderstood how it works. Timer starts only when pack is crafted. You are speaking about 3 days mature period for larders. But that is not the final crafting stage, it's still one of the crafting stages and has no timers. The actual timers start when you have a fully crafted pack. So only when you get your "Ahnimar Aged Salve", for example, the 3 days timer will start. That will be enough for you to find a perfect combination of peace zones and time for delivery. 3 days timer is good even for slow and lazy delivery with a 0 hurry.
I didn't misunderstand at all. I know perfectly well that the timer starts once the pack is actually crafted. You say 3 days will be enough time for me to find a window for peace zones, but how do you know that? You don't know my schedule or my ability to access the game at given times. Under this new system, I will be forced to constantly monitor the game to know when the optimal time to craft and move packs is, and those optimal times might not align with IRL. Under the current system, it doesn't matter how long I might need to wait between pack crafting and pack running. I can leave them be on my land indefinitely and go when I am able to. This system robs that ability from me, for no good reason that I can see. If you want to incentivize players to move their packs soon after making them, fine, put in a system that does just that, incentivize. But don't punish players who don't have the time or resources to constantly be on the game. Who is this benefiting?
 

voidzero

Member
The items that were removed from these recipes are still required in other crafts. So farmers can keep growing them. Farming doesn't suddenly becomes useless due to removal of that plants from these crafts. But if we remove charcoal, it will just drop in price even more. I explained why in my above post from yesterday.
And nothing changes for the crafters as they can still craft the same pots, but use new recipes for them.
If the suggestion is to keep everything in the pots and just add charcoal, that can be done. But we don't think that is what players will want.
I was going to post a brief analysis of every single item involved but I'm afraid you won't read it and respond in good faith, because you seem to be arguing from a "we must find/invent reasons to implement this at any cost" position, and I don't get why this is so important to you (the only thing you really mentioned is the charcoal price and supply/demand which can be adjusted in a billion different ways).

Please take a few hours to read /r/archeage and the official forums a bit and see what people have been saying about farming, owning land, crafting, and such topics in the past few years, and why they've been progressively more dissatisfied with changes related to those aspects of the game. Thanks.
 
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Nerono

Member
Can I ask, why do you need to store packs on your land for ages instead of selling them within 3 days after crafted? If you are not going to sell them, then there is no reason to craft. And 3 days is more than enough to move and deliver packs with no hurry.
You also say - just get rid of the timers. But you don't think about many other players that would be glad to get an extra bonus for this activity and be rewarded more for them being fast and active.
for people who does rokhala (ahnimar) packs it wont be a good thing , as its 0% and only makes them to do packs within 3 days as before they could stack packs for a week and do it in 1 day

 

voidzero

Member
for people who does rokhala (ahnimar) packs it wont be a good thing , as its 0% and only makes them to do packs within 3 days as before they could stack packs for a week and do it in 1 day

In the most recent patch on live, they apparently added a path between Rokhala and Rookborne. It's roughly in the same place the car-over-the-mountains route is now.

"A new path will be added between Rokhala and Rookborne Basin to make trading easier on Haranya. To see where it's being added, reference the picture on the site. For a text description, it'll be added to the top right corner of Rookborne that will connect the two regions."

I'm guessing this was done to alleviate this, but I might be wrong. There seems to be a number of such fixes for issues that live first introduced, then lost a lot of players due to them, then kind of sort of fixed them a little bit many months and many patches too late, most of which could be avoided here entirely.
 

Nerono

Member
In the most recent patch on live, they apparently added a path between Rokhala and Rookborne. It's roughly in the same place the car-over-the-mountains route is now.

"A new path will be added between Rokhala and Rookborne Basin to make trading easier on Haranya. To see where it's being added, reference the picture on the site. For a text description, it'll be added to the top right corner of Rookborne that will connect the two regions."

I'm guessing this was done to alleviate this, but I might be wrong. There seems to be a number of such fixes for issues that live first introduced, then lost a lot of players due to them, then kind of sort of fixed them a little bit many months and many patches too late, most of which could be avoided here entirely.
well this % decrease should not exist on 0% pack locations anyway, it just makes it more tidious and doesnt give any profit to players since its alr 0%
@Sparkle
 
Can I ask, why do you need to store packs on your land for ages instead of selling them within 3 days after crafted? If you are not going to sell them, then there is no reason to craft. And 3 days is more than enough to move and deliver packs with no hurry.
You also say - just get rid of the timers. But you don't think about many other players that would be glad to get an extra bonus for this activity and be rewarded more for them being fast and active.
It's called staging for the right time, having real life come up as it often does, or having the freedom to turn in packs YOU made when YOU want that are on YOUR land. It's quite simple. Why does it matter how long they sit there? They're taking up no space but that of the owner.
 

Thriem

Active Member
The items that were removed from these recipes are still required in other crafts. So farmers can keep growing them. Farming doesn't suddenly becomes useless due to removal of that plants from these crafts. But if we remove charcoal, it will just drop in price even more. I explained why in my above post from yesterday.
And nothing changes for the crafters as they can still craft the same pots, but use new recipes for them.
If the suggestion is to keep everything in the pots and just add charcoal, that can be done. But we don't think that is what players will want.
Well to be fair on live they made prof. pointless except a few in later patches and I think that is what concerned most of us with this change but i see it is only to the Apothecary House but the recipe using mats other than charcoal can still be done at other crafting stations if I understand this right. I am not sure of the impact that will have on pots but it does give options.

My faith in the AR team to be fair while considering a players thoughts is solid. It might not always be 100% of what we desire but very few things in life will please everyone. So I believe you will make every effort not to repeat the mistakes live made. You treat the players and the game 1000 times better than those other Publishers.

Btw patch is great ! A lot of people are pumped and several OG players returning! Combine this with the influx of new players things are looking good 8^)
 
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Thriem

Active Member
It's called staging for the right time, having real life come up as it often does, or having the freedom to turn in packs YOU made when YOU want that are on YOUR land. It's quite simple. Why does it matter how long they sit there? They're taking up no space but that of the owner.
@Sparkle When I heard of the change to packs with Timers I was not super excited but it was not earth shattering.

I do Kark runs and stage on guild land near the sea. So I had the same mindset as the point Sparkle made regarding it being enough time to run them when I wanted. So instead of making 150 larders to move/rotate at my own pace I would need to make less and only run when I am ready. Now I felt like that was a happy medium compared to how it was on live, you get a bigger profit if you run them fast but if you dont you have some time.

As i read other players point of view I see how that could really impact their fun, gold, land value, and strat for getting them safely turned in. I can see the point they are making and as it stands I have noticed many players "Fire sale" their Ahnimar/Kark land in trade chat. I mean people sell land but these were people just unloading everything. My enjoyment comes from PvP but If it came from running packs I can understand how disheartened a "value timer" would be.

In closing can we just have an incentive for running the packs in a given time but leave out the freshness timer? If not is it possible for the 3 day stage to be reset in some manner like we did with packs when we had a 5 day timer? This would at least give a player that may run into irl conflicts a chance to reset packs or have a family or guild member refresh them.
 

Sjinderson

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Technical Assistant
The pack is their for more reasons that just to get people to deliver fast. But thats a long explanation in itself to go over. Packs have a despawn timer on them already. People just avoid it by replacing them to reset it or wait for the server restart as that'll reset timers.

As for people not being able to transport them within 3 days because theirs no peace zone your problem is not with the timer. Its with conflict. Which you are doing a run that puts you through conflict. If conflict is such a big problem for you stop doing runs through dangerous areas.
 

Thriem

Active Member
The pack is their for more reasons that just to get people to deliver fast. But thats a long explanation in itself to go over. Packs have a despawn timer on them already. People just avoid it by replacing them to reset it or wait for the server restart as that'll reset timers.

As for people not being able to transport them within 3 days because theirs no peace zone your problem is not with the timer. Its with conflict. Which you are doing a run that puts you through conflict. If conflict is such a big problem for you stop doing runs through dangerous areas.
I have been of that mindset since I started playing AA in 2016. I agree with doing runs for high profit should present risk. I mean the good feeling a player gets when turning in packs through conflict zones and the profit one obtains is a result of the danger/risk that comes with it. I know that is not how some players feel because DOM protection and peace zones are ways to avoid being robbed if you are out numbered or out geared. With this change I hope the pack runners learn to adapt if the change remains because I do not want anyone to stop playing
 
The pack is their for more reasons that just to get people to deliver fast. But thats a long explanation in itself to go over. Packs have a despawn timer on them already. People just avoid it by replacing them to reset it or wait for the server restart as that'll reset timers.

As for people not being able to transport them within 3 days because theirs no peace zone your problem is not with the timer. Its with conflict. Which you are doing a run that puts you through conflict. If conflict is such a big problem for you stop doing runs through dangerous areas.
So, by that logic, I should just give up my main source of income because I don't have as much time as other people and don't want to risk getting robbed. Am I understanding this correctly? I should just start selling my Ahnimar land off too now.
 

Thriem

Active Member
So, by that logic, I should just give up my main source of income because I don't have as much time as other people and don't want to risk getting robbed. Am I understanding this correctly?
Well yes to put it simply. I believe Sjinderson's point is there has always been a expire timer but we as players have circumvented it by rotating packs or waiting for reset to do this function for us. Also there are other pack running alternitives (although not as profitable) that a player can run packs safely without waiting for peace. The players ability to create income is dependent on what the player chooses or risks to obtain that income. Simply put there are other options but not the most ideal considering what current players are used to.

I am sure there is more to his point as he stated but I think that about sums it up. I know your statement was intended as "sarcastic" but if you do not want to risk being robbed than the answer would be yes. I mean Peace is easily forced in HS by several players and although does change how some people run packs this is still manageable. I also work a full time job and my main source of gold is kark larders so I understand how this changes what we are used to doing. I would have a hard time running anything less than Kark larders for profit so I am going to make it work and I hope you find a way also 8^)

I am not saying I am for this change but I do understand and It will be ok. On the upside no more rotating 150 larders or messaging fam/guild to rotate when on VAC or away from game for a bit do to irl stuff *shrugs* Silver lining kinda because rotating was one of my least favorite things to do tbh

Also it could be worse because we get 3 days of normal/reg profit where on live we had hours. Now that really impacted pack runners, although not perfect for all I still feel this is a more than acceptable middle ground.
 
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