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Bring back wisps and reforging back ?

Revert crafting to 3.0 Or Remain as it is

  • Revert to 3.0

  • Remain as it is


Results are only viewable after voting.

havockitty

Active Member
There is also another point for discusion, people pointed out low population of the server dont know how much is true i asume that there is like 300 ppl playing daily minimum. But ok lets say population is low. New system is definetly not designed for low population and it dosent give u any options about crafted divines ayanad other than just sell it on AH and from population is low people just stuck with items that they cant sell, only option is regrade and in most cases desintegrate gold. If we had old system we could always salvage ayanad for wisps and try craft and regrade it again. Yes i know crystalization is coming next patch and we have to be aweare of that and personaly i think it would be interesting to have many options salvage for wisp or regrade hope for regrade or crystalize and be forced to sell cystalized item.
 

Kittydoom

Member
I personally would love for the old crafting system to come back. I don't really need to state points to as why since it has already been covered in the thread.
 

Vexaro

Member
Crafting is dead from more than just lowpop though. The entire system gates the ability to craft on an extreme level.

A perfect example: I was harvesting 40 archeum trees on CD (20 every 5 hours) for 4 weeks straight.

My goal was moonlight archeum essence. I need 500+ of it to craft 7 pieces of armor.

I ended up, in total, with all the RNG and BS associated with that system a measly 77 moonlight archeum essence. AFTER A MONTH. That's 1200 trees.
The trees are as bad as they come (so are braziers for points) and could be buffed (do that instead, or perhaps make use of that buff brought up at the end of the post), but you can still go do something as easy as larceny or a dungeon, that everyone has access to, new or old, and get moonlight, yea? so now rollback the system, where are you casually getting wisps from? and with the money someone would spend on ONE wisp on this comatose server (2H were 170~200g a year ago with 3x the pop, easy 300~350 now), player could buy all the moonlight needed (like 3g a crystal?) and still have some silver left for gum.
Didn't know divine delphinad & t5 is considered 'starting from scratch'.
On a 2 year old server yea it is, with it equipped they score like 4090 GS, hows that not starting from scratch, who you gonna face with that gear? and you're the same person that just recently said"divine delphs and some t5 endgear smh" as you devalued what they were getting, you were right and its still true, its not endgear, its just something to help catch up to people that have more land than they know what to do with, and 2 years worth of hoarding valuables that they been selling to gear up to no end.
Regrading every tier so you can tier it up is no rng ?
Right, its not. Regrades up to unique on crafted are all 100% since 4.0 and not expensive (unlike obsidian), then unique to celest is 70% chance, its not gonna break and good chance you'll do that regrade first try as well, zero charms. All an Ayanad needs is a cloaked celest delph on the recipe. Every crating tier is safe, RNG isn't imposing anything, there are no obstacles, to anybody, unlike with previous system.
New players shouldn't be investing into rng. It's a silly argument to say they'll bail because of it when they can simply buy their gear like everyone else has the ability to.
Same point as havocs then, you don't want to revitalize anything, you wanna line X pockets as the people with the ability to provide those things, will, but not before they stick premiums on it when they post it on AH, now new players broke, can't afford, can't get there by himself either, quits with the "i'll never catch up to that" state of mind. With current system player can make it all themselves (get the charcoal, get the sun/moon, make the sturdy ingots, earthmana for transmuters etc etc) OR buy from you, their choice.
People needing more tries to get ayanads = increasing basic mat and oil demand.
Aquafarms are very new player friendly and offer recources required for oils.
How many times have you said this "aquafarming dead" in threads now. What people produce, sells, just 90% tidals are completely empty, around me theres one guy from iron head that plants his and thats it, but you want even more demand for aquafarming, when theres hardly any supply. Red Coral sold 2300 yesterday, how much is there available today, right now? 85.

Admins launched support packs to help newcomers get on their feet, we don't need to rollback to something that will drag them back down, anchor style. And for all the talking down you do to new players, Havoc, you the one that seems to live on the moon by yourself mang, come down sometime to see how the rest live.
 

trapwhre02

Well-Known Member
On a 2 year old server yea it is, with it equipped they score like 4090 GS, hows that not starting from scratch, who you gonna face with that gear? and you're the same person that just recently said"divine delphs and some t5 endgear smh" as you devalued what they were getting, you were right and its still true, its not endgear, its just something to help catch up to people that have more land than they know what to do with, and 2 years worth of hoarding valuables that they been selling to gear up to no end.
How does the server age matter ? Barely any of the people who started in 2017 here are still playing. Even a big portion of those that started in 2018 aren't here anymore.
The server is two years old yes, but that doesn't mean that everyone playing right now, has had that time to gear up. Not to mention that anyone who started about 3 months ago or prior to that, had to go from absolute scratch with worthless celestial t4 gear and anyone joining us now is already saving a worthful amount of time and gold by obtaining the beginner set graded divine at t5.

My answer in the thread you were referring to, was to someone that called the beginner gear pack "endgame gear". I simply said that it is far from it. That isn't the same as me saying it's worthless trash. The gear is an absolutely OK starter pack and once gemmed will let anyone be able to participate in pvp with fun. You also need to realize that you make the gear seem worth less than it really is. Yes it puts you at 4K. Is that gemmed ? No I doubt it is. Look at the top 100 players. Pay attention to the gearscore calculation (actual gear gearscore & gems gearscore). The top players have about 6500 gearscore in gear, and the other 3500 are entirely gems.
So look back at the beginner gear and say again that the players given that set are "starting from scratch". Because the gearset difference is barely 2.5K to the absolute top ranked players. I mean just remember all the people that complained about how they played for a couple of months already and that the new gear is better than theirs. The new stuff isn't endgame gear but it is faaaaaar from being bad.

Right, its not. Regrades up to unique on crafted are all 100% since 4.0 and not expensive (unlike obsidian), then unique to celest is 70% chance, its not gonna break and good chance you'll do that regrade first try as well, zero charms.
You're right, my bad. I had the obsidian regrade rates in my mind.

Same point as havocs then, you don't want to revitalize anything, you wanna line X pockets as the people with the ability to provide those things, will, but not before they stick premiums on it when they post it on AH, now new players broke, can't afford, can't get there by himself either, quits with the "i'll never catch up to that" state of mind.
Of course I want to revitalize things. You apparently read most of my posts so you should've seen me complaining about the lack of valuable proficiencies and low demand for basic mats. I don't craft myself at all. But I know that pre 3.5, simple mats such as oil/leather required a (rough estimate) 3-5 times the amount, than it does now. I mean how many attempts did it take you to get to an upgradeable delphinad ? Not only that, but back then if you had one, you could go and regrade that shit to divine/epic/legendary and knew you had an equalivent grade ayanad in your hands. Now you craft the ayanad, and pray to the lords that you get anything above divine or it breaks and the entire delphinad > ayanad upcraft process was worth nothing and set you far back.

New players are given a great starter set. They don't have to jump into crafting their own gear because they are already given it. They'll play a couple weeks or months with it, to try and gem it to further improve it. And when the time eventually comes that they'll have to upgrade their gear, they've had enough time to properly set up their ways of making money and should have a decent daily income that they can jump into crafting with. And if they decide to craft their own gear, they can sell their beginner set and even get quite some gold from it to give them a good boost.

How many times have you said this "aquafarming dead" in threads now. What people produce, sells, just 90% tidals are completely empty, around me theres one guy from iron head that plants his and thats it, but you want even more demand for aquafarming, when theres hardly any supply. Red Coral sold 2300 yesterday, how much is there available today, right now? 85.
Go tell that to my girlfriend who I adviced to do aquafarms when she started. She had 6 farms and couldn't keep up with harvesting corals as her oils sold at a lot faster pace than she was able to produce. Right now she does 6 farms, crafts 100 oils and by the time she sold 20, she already has another 100 oils. She's sitting on a pile of items that are worthless because there is absolutely no demand for it, compared to what it used to be.

Saying that anything you craft sells, is so wrong. How could you ever think that that is true ?
 
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havockitty

Active Member
Big problem is that current crafting system does not promote crafting as a proffesion, forcing everyone into crafting and only very small group with houndreds of thousands of gold can rly do it for profit from only profit u can get now are epic regrade procs. So from most crafters decided to not craft also producers of basic materials died and outcome of this is that if new player try start crafting he will stare at empty ah and strugle to get materials.

Next patch we will get crystalization but its a fixing failing building with a tape and pretennding that it works.

New crafting system is simply designed for way higher population with connected market with other servers where ur items actualy sell, dosent work here.
 
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Nadury

New Member
Yes please bring back the old crafting system! It's healthier for the economy and will prevent Heart of Ayanad to become obsolete next patches with Hiram. In general it would keep the economy active and not only depend on trade packs, fishing and the few crafting options left.
 

witchbell

New Member
I dislike the old system for similar reason that other people have stated here. The system was only good for established craftmen and archeum farmers. It was an expensive gate of entree. The modern system may not be profitable but one could stockpile all the necessary materials beforehand to get straight to their desired tier. Additionally if someone was looking for a specific type of gear they would have to spend loads of gold playing the rng game. You had to pray that you could find someone willing to put it on the AH, rather than break it down into wisps to try again for the upgradable version which was like 50% more expensive than any other version. Nothing more frustrating than wanting an Ayanad wave scepter, willing to settle for lake or ocean but end up with Life. I guess it wouldn't be so bad if transmuters were left in the game but then you wonder why we're going back to an unfriendly system. That's like wanting regrading to be more profitable by going back to the system where heroic and unique could downgrade.
 

havockitty

Active Member
I dislike the old system for similar reason that other people have stated here. The system was only good for established craftmen and archeum farmers. It was an expensive gate of entree. The modern system may not be profitable but one could stockpile all the necessary materials beforehand to get straight to their desired tier. Additionally if someone was looking for a specific type of gear they would have to spend loads of gold playing the rng game. You had to pray that you could find someone willing to put it on the AH, rather than break it down into wisps to try again for the upgradable version which was like 50% more expensive than any other version. Nothing more frustrating than wanting an Ayanad wave scepter, willing to settle for lake or ocean but end up with Life. I guess it wouldn't be so bad if transmuters were left in the game but then you wonder why we're going back to an unfriendly system. That's like wanting regrading to be more profitable by going back to the system where heroic and unique could downgrade.
Thats why you could already notice that there is proposition to leave in game Transmuters but let them be only aplied to Ayanad gear, what would result in lower prices of ayanad gear from u remove rng on last stage.
 

vulgrr

Active Member
I dislike the old system for similar reason that other people have stated here. The system was only good for established craftmen and archeum farmers. It was an expensive gate of entree. The modern system may not be profitable but one could stockpile all the necessary materials beforehand to get straight to their desired tier. Additionally if someone was looking for a specific type of gear they would have to spend loads of gold playing the rng game. You had to pray that you could find someone willing to put it on the AH, rather than break it down into wisps to try again for the upgradable version which was like 50% more expensive than any other version. Nothing more frustrating than wanting an Ayanad wave scepter, willing to settle for lake or ocean but end up with Life. I guess it wouldn't be so bad if transmuters were left in the game but then you wonder why we're going back to an unfriendly system. That's like wanting regrading to be more profitable by going back to the system where heroic and unique could downgrade.
The current gold sink is a lot higher than the old system though. The old system was very self sustaining with how reforging worked. Craft up > unseal > if fail reforge > if success keep going.

The new system requires levels of archeum that are both incredibly expensive and time consuming to the point of it being nearly impossible to accumulate, and does not produce anything extra. The old system also produced a lot of excess archeum as a byproduct which additionally made crafting easier. If you fail a regrade on ayanad level you have to start all the way back at the bottom with no easy way back to the top.

The old system was designed to have you hit ayanad several times, which created a lot of extra wisps to be able to hit ayanad even easier.


The best way to improve the old system is quite simple: bring it back, but leave the Transmuter item in the game, and restrict it to only allow you to recloak *Ayanad* items, and T7 obsidian of course. That way, once you hit ayanad, you can choose the item you want. If you are smart, you won't just recloak the first ayanad you get. Instead you will reforge it and craft several ayanads using that one. Then once you feel confident you can start attempting regrades for your epic or legendary.

Edit: Also forgot, the current regrade rates should stay as well. The 100% success possible on celestial is very nice. Also the cost of regrading should be slightly tweaked as well, or archeum could drop more from exploded attempts. That would truly bring things back to where they were previously while reviving crafting, which pre 3.5 was booming even as the population was dwindling.
 
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plamp

Active Member
Bringing back the old system while keeping transmutors capable of cloaking ayanad only also makes the nerfed erenor far more reasonable and worth it to pursue. I could write up pages about why the old system was better and how good it was for crafters and farmers, I'm so happy this topic is coming up.
 

jrch2k10

Active Member
Bringing back the old system is something that while should be possible to do would take a little while to do.
That being said the extent of doing this is so large to consider it we would need a poll of player opinion to see how many are in favour of it.
Ok Sjinderson i think this will be easier than bringing such a big system back

Context:
I'm returning from 3.0b patch couple of weeks ago and going to the process to upgrade all my delphinad set to ayanad(i hated erenor since oficial days so i won't go there) and this are the issues i noticed.

1.) Archeum have extremely short availability and/or is way more expensive
2.) Mysterious powder levels are way too low atm
3.) Corals availability on AH is way too low to actually take craft for profit.

Ovbiously if archeum problems make craft too expensive, then people have less reasons to go and farm mysterious powder, corals and other farm materials cuz they simply won't sell often since well you need to be very gold productive to even take on the challenge of making your own set let alone make pieces for sell on AH BUT i think the problem is easily solvable on a mini patch.

Proposal:

1.) make archeum trees in Auroria drop crystals instead of shard(or shards instead of dusts, dunno what they give now) so you won't have to alter other mechanics, this will make auroria land more competitive and actually push people to farm archeum.

2.) if you evenstone pieces be it illustrious-erenor, obsidian, etc. return at the very least the same amount of archeum essence/crystal you put into making them, that way if you wanna switch or get rid of gear or whatever other reason you can get archeum to try other crafts or sell.

3.) improve a little bit the mysterious powder chances for max larceny on those RNG boxes, this should put alchemy prices back under control and give some reason for people to go out and farm mobs again.

4.) Remove or ease out the nerfs on erenor, the server is quite established now and this promote more people to go erenor while making other tiers cheaper could boost the crafting market again and lower entry prices for newbies.

5.) if you take 4 into account then i would suggest lower a bit the requirements of Archeum to T4-6 upgrades for obsidian (leave T7 as it is) while boosting a bit the library or auroria materials, this way newcomers and not farmers can actually reach a decent gear for PVP faster(i do consider divine T6 to be competitive for most cases, it won't one shots that 12k gs pirate but will let you enjoy most content fine-ish).
 

Aviendha

Well-Known Member
3.) improve a little bit the mysterious powder chances for max larceny on those RNG boxes, this should put alchemy prices back under control and give some reason for people to go out and farm mobs again.
The only thing I don't get is this part. What do you mean,mysterious garden powder and alchemy prices back under control?

They are still only 2g ea, whereas the used to be 15-20g a long time ago. I don't see the problem.
 

Sjinderson

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Technical Assistant
Ok Sjinderson i think this will be easier than bringing such a big system back

Context:
I'm returning from 3.0b patch couple of weeks ago and going to the process to upgrade all my delphinad set to ayanad(i hated erenor since oficial days so i won't go there) and this are the issues i noticed.

1.) Archeum have extremely short availability and/or is way more expensive
2.) Mysterious powder levels are way too low atm
3.) Corals availability on AH is way too low to actually take craft for profit.

Ovbiously if archeum problems make craft too expensive, then people have less reasons to go and farm mysterious powder, corals and other farm materials cuz they simply won't sell often since well you need to be very gold productive to even take on the challenge of making your own set let alone make pieces for sell on AH BUT i think the problem is easily solvable on a mini patch.

Proposal:

1.) make archeum trees in Auroria drop crystals instead of shard(or shards instead of dusts, dunno what they give now) so you won't have to alter other mechanics, this will make auroria land more competitive and actually push people to farm archeum.

2.) if you evenstone pieces be it illustrious-erenor, obsidian, etc. return at the very least the same amount of archeum essence/crystal you put into making them, that way if you wanna switch or get rid of gear or whatever other reason you can get archeum to try other crafts or sell.

3.) improve a little bit the mysterious powder chances for max larceny on those RNG boxes, this should put alchemy prices back under control and give some reason for people to go out and farm mobs again.

4.) Remove or ease out the nerfs on erenor, the server is quite established now and this promote more people to go erenor while making other tiers cheaper could boost the crafting market again and lower entry prices for newbies.

5.) if you take 4 into account then i would suggest lower a bit the requirements of Archeum to T4-6 upgrades for obsidian (leave T7 as it is) while boosting a bit the library or auroria materials, this way newcomers and not farmers can actually reach a decent gear for PVP faster(i do consider divine T6 to be competitive for most cases, it won't one shots that 12k gs pirate but will let you enjoy most content fine-ish).
1. Can consider it but it is not related to this thread

2. No.
3. No. We do not control the rng of marketplace boxes. The chances are based on the item count. We are not going to decrease the items or increase the amount per role to increased average amount.
4. No. This doesn't promote anything. The people who want Errenor have gone erenor regardless of the nerf. The current system has people make gear for themself and not create an economy of crafters. Ignoring this and focusing only on the nerf no. That is not something that'll be changed without majority approval.
5. No. From people I've spoke with the library mats are always the problem for people upgrading. Not the archeum. Never have they complained the archeum cost is too high and changing this on a whim will only irritate everyone who's already made their pieces
 

Papatuna

Member
If you want to fix crafting stop putting archeum in rng boxes..... If you dont like grinding archeum trees then buy it off the marketplace . Right now those marketplace have killed logs / archeum trees for the entire server just because the admins dont want to give up prime items in thier ptw boxes
 

Sjinderson

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Technical Assistant
If you want to fix crafting stop putting archeum in rng boxes..... If you dont like grinding archeum trees then buy it off the marketplace . Right now those marketplace have killed logs / archeum trees for the entire server just because the admins dont want to give up prime items in thier ptw boxes
That fixes nothing. You just hyper inflate the price of anything archeum related because there is not enough supply
 

Papatuna

Member
That fixes nothing. You just hyper inflate the price of anything archeum related because there is not enough supply
there isnt enough supply because simply people arnt doing it because it isnt worth anything same goes for logs go check right now even though i havnt i bet every single log is up
 

vulgrr

Active Member
Braziers are far better than archeum trees to be honest. But yes, activity on auroria is quite dwindled.

The trees could definitely use a big buff. Lets lose the shards and dusts, and pump up the distribution from the trees by at least double. If you so happen to proc an essence tree you're lucky to get more than 2 essences off it.
 

trapwhre02

Well-Known Member
A solution from my side to increase archeum supply: Drastically lower the required labor for identifying auroria armor.
90 labor at 230K larency (150 at 0) is insane for getting 1-3 crystals.


Pointless to identify any of that.
 

plamp

Active Member
Archeum is only a single problem out of all of the issues with the new system. The purpose of reverting to 3.0b crafting + transmutors for ayanad is to create a market for crafters again and to just have a much better and less aids system in general. Changing archeum or mpg rates is only a bandaid solution and still results in a market of people only crafting for themselves.

The point of this thread is to discuss the potential return of the old crafting system and why its good.
 

RogueChoi

Active Member
If you guys wanted crafting to matter, you all shouldn't have cried about Erenor to be nerfed. And yes Sjin, many of us still went for Erenor because the look and the stat system it uses. However, with the nerf in place, its 3-4x the effective price per performance point. With all the absolute work and hell that goes into making and leveling Erenor, shouldn't it retain its top level status? If Hiram comes unnerfed, in a few patches, it'll exceed Erenor. If it comes nerfed, there's no point going beyond 4.5. In fact, why introduce Obsidian if it was going to overpower Ayanad ? ;) Erenor creates a massive demand for mats, old regraded weapons, etc, and that money those players generate from sales will help them upgrade their own gear. So I'm okay with the old system coming back, or changes to it, but the issue goes hand in hand with the desire and demand for crafted armor having a purpose after Hiram launches.
 
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