Guild formation confirmation

[Ayman]

also you saying "If you decide that the guild is not strong enough to defend its castle without calling in additional help then take it back? " arent you the ones who camped exeloch with your 30+ playernation members just to let east guild cheese lords to own it and not any other west guilds? also you are the same one that keep allying east weekly cause you know your nation would lose to west without east's help and east cant win without playernation's help so no matter what west tries to do its gonna be "YOU" playernation + East, in any fight vs west, cr/gr/aegis/whalesong/siege, anyway this forum post was made cause your people that abused a game mechaic to deny someone from joining the siege, then you jumped in with ANOTHER subject cause you know what you did was wrong and against the rule 10 like @trapwhre02 mentioned, as for what @Nadury said about west porting out from halcy cause they dont wanna fight, you can always bloodlust for your kills, as long theres a way to finish event then its not "sabotage" like you said, as for the main issue we talking about here there should be a way to fix it, someone with no guild can start making a raid for an event and invite others thats not in guild aswell and create a guild without mentioning it to them first, thats not the player's fault that accepted raid/party invite thats abusing game mechanic and thats what playernation members did with their alts to @Vapewave , @Joey and you shouldnt mention about other players going pirate then flip back to west to dodge 24hours cooldown when your own members does it too, and you remember what Snipe did second time you killed Leviathan, the whole server knows and thats what Supapower tried to do yesterday and got max in jail thats why she's in pirate guild right now spamming draught, same thing happened with Haliima, so dont say your members stopped doing it

 

[Thriem]

I think the issue is that the GMs continue to make up rules as they go, in private chats, or in forum posts like this and don't actually have clear cut rules on what's ok and what is not, and continue to not do anything every time their systems fail. So it makes sense for West to come and make these threads, and it makes sense that PN is arguing these posts, simply because rules aren't clear.

Someone whines, Sjinder makes up a rule, Sparkle says "we going to chat with the developers", meanwhile 100 people get banned without knowing what they done wrong and trying to look for the rule they broke lol.

I too agree with Lion on this but lets be realistic we wont get clear "rules as written" It would be nice but will likely never happen.The best we can hope for is fair judgement dealing with any game situation that prompts a complaint or suggestion. I mean most of us know when we are doing something "Scumbagish" but we justify it with excuses or some of us don't but enjoy pushing the limits of what a player can get away with before getting banned. Now we have resulted to finger pointing and who is abusing what mechanic. I do think it is funny that Joey's first post was to point out Virty "abusing a mechanic" that your guild or Allies caused.

Can we talk about how WEST was sending Virtydagina pirate to AVOID/REMOVE a guild timer isn't that kinda a abuse of a mechanic.. Thankfully PN1 stopped that abuse in its tracks!!

Then you go on about safe bids and forced trials?Is this what it has come to now for real? Seemed like you were just trolling till shit got real.** DUDE SAID SAFE BIDS AND FORCING TRIALS** **DUDE SAID CLARIFICATION OF SABOTAGE** FOR REAL??? I WOULD HAVE NEVER TYPED THAT AS THE GUILD LEAD OF PN LIKE PUT THAT IN A TICKET OR A DM TO SPARKLE. SHIT NEXT TIME HAVE SHANKS TYPE THAT EARTH SHATTERING HOT INFO IT WOULDNT LOOK NEARLY AS BAD. Truth is you are the guild leader of one of the elite Guilds in the game and you come with that? DONT GO OUT LIKE TAKASHI 69 DID

I've already made it pretty clear we have no intention of defending the castle we take from west, we are siegeing for fun. If you decide that the guild is not strong enough to defend its castle without calling in additional help then take it back? Secondly I fail to see how us owning a Castle in a nation is a problem there is no rules that state PN is limited to 1 castle, there are just restrictions that make it impossible. That being said once again we wouldn't be the ones owning the castle <No One> would own the castle.

OH WORD? SO YOUR TELLING ME ALL THE EFFORT, TIME, THE ALT TROLL GUILD ,AND GOLD SPENT WAS FOR PVP FUN? DUDE WE ALL ARE SHITLORDS SOMETIMES OWN THAT SHIT. THIS WISHY WASHY "RULES ARE NOT CLEAR" SHIT LOOKS SAD. I MEAN WHAT WAS THE GOAL THEN IF NOT TO KEEP PPL FROM SIEGE? OH RIGHT PVP FOR FUN! WHAT KINDA "CLARIFICATION" DO YOU NEED LIKE ON A SCALE FROM 1 -10 HOW DOUCHEY IS THIS? Lets all go back to playing our game and keep the snitching to a min.

 

[Thriem]

FOR THE RECORD I HOPE NO ONE GETS BANNED BECAUSE WE ALL DO SHIT BUT SOMEONE IS GONNA MESS AROUND AND CATCH A HOT PERMA BAN. THAT SHIT IS NOT COOL AT ALL. #MAIN ACCOUNTS MATTER

 

[Splodge]

Anyone that was trying to trick people into joining a guild in order to cheat them out of siege access should have their account banned. Also, those who organized it should have their account banned as well. If it is a guild leader orchestrating such scummy thing and sabotaging events like that, they should have their guild disbanded. That is the only thing that is going to stop this from happening in the future. Think NCAA punishments and not NFL punishments.

 

[Hny]

not to be that person, but
if westies are allowed to complain on forums about stuff then so are pn and east.

this siege was a clown fiesta left and right with people abusing mechanics.
there's no one to blame except the admins for not making rules clear.
what am i gonna do with a vague "weLL IF YOU SABOTAGE THE GAME THEN (..)

also sjinder youre just making a clown outta yourself by saying resetting kraken is abusing the game mechanics lol. there is no other way to contest kraken.

 

[FastestTkInTheEast]

Honestly there’s nothing constructive coming from this thread, just lock it already. See you at the next big siege gamers ?

 

[Asteriea]

not to be that person, but
if westies are allowed to complain on forums about stuff then so are pn and east.

this siege was a clown fiesta left and right with people abusing mechanics.
there's no one to blame except the admins for not making rules clear.
what am i gonna do with a vague "weLL IF YOU SABOTAGE THE GAME THEN (..)

also sjinder youre just making a clown outta yourself by saying resetting kraken is abusing the game mechanics lol. there is no other way to contest kraken.

The day has come. The day has finally come. I agree with Hny.

 

[Sjinderson]

not to be that person, but
if westies are allowed to complain on forums about stuff then so are pn and east.

this siege was a clown fiesta left and right with people abusing mechanics.
there's no one to blame except the admins for not making rules clear.
what am i gonna do with a vague "weLL IF YOU SABOTAGE THE GAME THEN (..)

also sjinder youre just making a clown outta yourself by saying resetting kraken is abusing the game mechanics lol. there is no other way to contest kraken.

I never said it was abusing game mechanics. It was an example of what can be considered sabotage.
So I will explain it again but in a better way.

If a player or small group decides to turn up to kraken with the sole intent to do nothing but drag the boss away repeatedly this is not contesting. It is disrupting,
I a group show up and oppose the other group and decide to reset the boss. This is contesting.

I should of specified this and the other example for General are exactly that. Examples of sabotage that were aimed at trying to explain that an attempt of sabotage is by where a player(s) try to prevent a another from doing the events objective out of a sake of malicious intent when they have no desire to complete the event themselves and are only there to act as a disruption.
Not that they should be taken as a ruling. I do apologies for not having made that apparent.

As for rules on sabotage. Rules are vague to cover a wide ground. People are very creative in ways they try to be clever so its very hard to create rules for every scenario. And depending on the scenario it can be up to interpretation which makes things more difficult without a grounding stance already.
So lest rectify this or at least make it better. Right now you've asked for clarification regarding sieges/usage of alt guilds and what is considered sabotage for events.
Whatever else you feel should have clarification then post it here and I can add it to my list to go through

 

[trapwhre02]

To defend Sjinder, in his original post about Kraken he said "stalling it out until it despawns". This isn't contesting, it's griefing.

 

[Splodge]

To defend Sjinder, in his original post about Kraken he said "stalling it out until it despawns". This isn't contesting, it's griefing.

Your avatar makes me happy

 

[Joey]

Examples of sabotage that were aimed at trying to explain that an attempt of sabotage is by where a player(s) try to prevent a another from doing the events objective out of a sake of malicious intent when they have no desire to complete the event themselves and are only there to act as a disruption.

So based off this example/definition you are telling players, If you can't do the boss yourself don't keep other players from doing it? Lol if I catch anyone contesting our Levi attempts expect a 7 day trip to cooldown town.

 

[Shanks]

I never said it was abusing game mechanics. It was an example of what can be considered sabotage.
So I will explain it again but in a better way.

If a player or small group decides to turn up to kraken with the sole intent to do nothing but drag the boss away repeatedly this is not contesting. It is disrupting,
I a group show up and oppose the other group and decide to reset the boss. This is contesting.

I should of specified this and the other example for General are exactly that. Examples of sabotage that were aimed at trying to explain that an attempt of sabotage is by where a player(s) try to prevent a another from doing the events objective out of a sake of malicious intent when they have no desire to complete the event themselves and are only there to act as a disruption.
Not that they should be taken as a ruling. I do apologies for not having made that apparent.

As for rules on sabotage. Rules are vague to cover a wide ground. People are very creative in ways they try to be clever so its very hard to create rules for every scenario. And depending on the scenario it can be up to interpretation which makes things more difficult without a grounding stance already.
So lest rectify this or at least make it better. Right now you've asked for clarification regarding sieges/usage of alt guilds and what is considered sabotage for events.
Whatever else you feel should have clarification then post it here and I can add it to my list to go through

Ok so if taylorswift deciedes to contest east CR i can go and report him, since he has no intent to do the event?

 

[Vapewave]

Look at Joey trying to lawyerball the GMs.

There are events in the game that make sense to disrupt through ordinary gameplay means that don't require abusing mechanics to accomplish. PVP isn't disruption, it's PVP.

 

[lightsenshi]

There are events in the game that make sense to disrupt through ordinary gameplay means that don't require abusing mechanics to accomplish. PVP isn't disruption, it's PVP.

PVP by it's nature is drama and whining....or so my 20 odd years of MMO experience tells me.

 

[Thriem]

So based off this example/definition you are telling players, If you can't do the boss yourself don't keep other players from doing it? Lol if I catch anyone contesting our Levi attempts expect a 7 day trip to cooldown town.

The rules will never be 100% clear in certain area's of the game. Some are 100% clear like using a bot or multi boxing. As i said prior in this thread, "I too agree with Lion on this but lets be realistic we wont get clear "rules as written" It would be nice but will likely never happen.The best we can hope for is fair judgement dealing with any game situation that prompts a complaint or suggestion. I mean most of us know when we are doing something "Scumbagish" but we justify it with excuses or some of us don't but enjoy pushing the limits of what a player can get away with before getting banned. Now we have resulted to finger pointing and who is abusing what mechanic." But Sjinder said it better,
"As for rules on sabotage. Rules are vague to cover a wide ground. People are very creative in ways they try to be clever so its very hard to create rules for every scenario. And depending on the scenario it can be up to interpretation which makes things more difficult without a grounding stance already.
So lest rectify this or at least make it better. Right now you've asked for clarification regarding sieges/usage of alt guilds and what is considered sabotage for events.
Whatever else you feel should have clarification then post it here and I can add it to my list to go through." Sjinder gives clear direction on how to proceed if you are "unclear on rules" yet Joey posts his "Interpretation" of these rules. I believe this will be for the GM to decide on what will happen regarding your posts so people wont "expect" anything since it is not your call to make. If i ever get a 7 day Ban i will probably be salty at first, learn from it, and move on. I will 100% not start bringing up every situation that suites my need to prove "I am unclear on rules" or "Other people abuse this mechanic too" Furthermore I will also not bring up my "Interpretations" of mechanics that others from both sides have used for years to suite my argument/point. Hny was correct both sides straddle the line of what is considered abuse of mechanics so maybe we should stop pointing fingers and move forward.

 

[Papatuna]

Honestly this thread is so off topic the title is called
Guild formation confirmation.

Yet no one here is talking about why a confirmation prompt for creating a guild isn’t asked to everyone in the party, Not just the leader of the party.

Instead everyone is arguing about something that should honestly have its own thread I don’t believe that’s why vapewave made this post.

Can we fix how the mechanics works while trying to create a guild, because let’s be honest if you don’t accept a prompt about joining a guild then you shouldn’t simply join a guild.

 

[Joey]

Honestly this thread is so off topic the title is called
Guild formation confirmation.

Yet no one here is talking about why a confirmation prompt for creating a guild isn’t asked to everyone in the party, Not just the leader of the party.

Instead everyone is arguing about something that should honestly have its own thread I don’t believe that’s why vapewave made this post.

Can we fix how the mechanics works while trying to create a guild, because let’s be honest if you don’t accept a prompt about joining a guild then you shouldn’t simply join a guild.

If you read the thread sparkle already stated they are looking into it

 

[HNIC_Steamroller]

If a player or small group decides to turn up to kraken with the sole intent to do nothing but drag the boss away repeatedly this is not contesting. It is disrupting,

This is an insanely poor distinction to make. Contesting content is an important part of the sandbox/sandpark experience.

I'd like @Sparkle to weigh in on this.

 

[Sjinderson]

This is an insanely poor distinction to make. Contesting content is an important part of the sandbox/sandpark experience.

I'd like @Sparkle to weigh in on this.

You should read my initial post again then as I stated it was not a ruling and an example of what is possible to consider sabotage under how it can be interpreted.

Now to follow up for what can be called sabotaging game events.
With events such as Kraken. Leviathan, Anthalon, any other major world boss enemy they are in conflict regions where anything can be considered fair game. Unless you are intentionally trying to bug/exploit (Trying to bug/exploit bosses will result in a ban anyway as this is not allowed) them in a way to stop another group. You can do anything to fight them and they can fight back. Resetting a boss falls under neither an exploit or bug.
This applies to a lot of other things as well as is the nature of ArcheAge.
Events like these can be called free flowing. They're not static to happen one way and can turn out any number of different ways. You can't exactly sabotage something that doesn't have a preset way it is meant to play out.

To give an example of an event you can consider static Mirage Isle races.
A race will always end with someone winning. So attempts to stop that or control who wins by placing cars in the track or driving the wrong way to crash people is sabotage. You're only their to prevent/manipulate/disrupt the outcome.
This, the gladiator tournament and some other small or custom events are the only events that can be called Static. Static being that the event is meant to follow a structure and have a set outcome. Gladiator being someone wins and the structure 1v1 fights till there is nobody left.

To get back to the topic of forming parties to guild lock people and put them on cooldown so they cannot participate in a siege.
As it currently stands this is sabotage so anyone found doing so will receive a 7 day ban. There is no warning of being added to a guild. You just are added.
Now if the Devs can implement a warning message to those in the party when a guild is formed and people are tricked by it even then, that is down to the players own incompetence. You can't call it sabotage if you willingly click accept to "You have been invited to **** guild" It was in your control to not click accept on the guild invite.

 

[Sparkle]

We carefully checked the possibility to add additional confirmation pop-up for the players prior joining a newly created guild from the party. Unfortunately, due to the current game mechanics, that will not be possible.​

However, to avoid any further manipulations with the guild creation and players joining that guild at the moment of creation unwillingly, another change will be implemented.​

To create a guild, party will need to stay within 5m from the party member that is going to create a guild at the moment party member interacts with a Guild Manager NPC.​