@Sparkle Players come to this server to avoid the poor decisions made on live I FIRMLY believe this is a poor decision you are taking a drop that is limited to people who EARN it and giving it to someone based on RNG and devaluing the efforts that a large chunk of your player base put into an event during prime time. PLEASE put this to a poll and let the players vote on the change this shouldnt be something changed on a whim.
Kraken Ink Sac
- Thread starter Sparkle
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trapwhre02
Well-Known Member
I like the Idea to shift PvP towards Abyssal. I've been there a few times since PN2 & Budget were formed, and.. well it usually is super empty when kraken lasts beyond it. So it's not really exciting doing it from my view. But an Ink Sac has crazy prices, regardless of the amount that is in the economy simply due to the high effort required to obtain it. Making this an RNG reward seems stupid.
I personally don't care about Kraken Ink Sacs very much. I've never needed one, and when I decided to get Evasion boots, I simply took the Parry Rate route and T7'd them to avoid it entirely. But not everyone has the resources that I have.
People always say "If you need Ink Sacs, go and fight for it." You say that being in an established nation for months, all of who know very well how kraken works and you all have much knowledge about just about everything in it for the most part. You can't just expect West/East to suddenly unite in a super-guild with the poverty of geared players you created for us, when you took almost all of the players that are capable of contesting any of the three groups East/West would have to fight simutaneously.
- "If you need Ink Sacs, go and fight for it." Do you farm all 30 Wrathsmite Armor Shards yourself, do you obtain all 8 Kadum's Barks yourself ? I doubt any of you live in a single-man economy in which every item you need, you obtain it yourselves. At one point or another you want to buy something from someone because you don't want to go get it yourself. Is there any mat in the game even remotely close to the price of an Ink Sac ? Just pointing out here that anyone who says something like this should be well aware that this is a stupid argument.
You all also speak as if the Ink Sac was the sole reason you are fighting this boss for hours. And you all completely hide, knowingly or unwillingly that Kraken also drops some very good and also really expensive gear (just thinking about Kraken Shield).
Why don't we make it that the tentacles which Kraken drops upon death, have this "chance" of being another Ink Sac ?
This way, you are putting more Ink Sacs into the economy. The people killing Kraken and getting the actual loot not always manage to also grab all of the tenticles as they might all get killed during the attempt of collecting them.
This way, there is also the chance that not only 1 group of players obtain an Ink Sac which forces them into a price-war when they are trying to sell it outside their group, resulting in a drop of price ?
Overall, I believe a change has to happen first to see the impact on the economy. So people should be open to a change and just see it for themselves. It can always be reverted and I doubt a week or two of a change will make things unrevertable.
I personally don't care about Kraken Ink Sacs very much. I've never needed one, and when I decided to get Evasion boots, I simply took the Parry Rate route and T7'd them to avoid it entirely. But not everyone has the resources that I have.
People always say "If you need Ink Sacs, go and fight for it." You say that being in an established nation for months, all of who know very well how kraken works and you all have much knowledge about just about everything in it for the most part. You can't just expect West/East to suddenly unite in a super-guild with the poverty of geared players you created for us, when you took almost all of the players that are capable of contesting any of the three groups East/West would have to fight simutaneously.
- "If you need Ink Sacs, go and fight for it." Do you farm all 30 Wrathsmite Armor Shards yourself, do you obtain all 8 Kadum's Barks yourself ? I doubt any of you live in a single-man economy in which every item you need, you obtain it yourselves. At one point or another you want to buy something from someone because you don't want to go get it yourself. Is there any mat in the game even remotely close to the price of an Ink Sac ? Just pointing out here that anyone who says something like this should be well aware that this is a stupid argument.
You all also speak as if the Ink Sac was the sole reason you are fighting this boss for hours. And you all completely hide, knowingly or unwillingly that Kraken also drops some very good and also really expensive gear (just thinking about Kraken Shield).
Why don't we make it that the tentacles which Kraken drops upon death, have this "chance" of being another Ink Sac ?
This way, you are putting more Ink Sacs into the economy. The people killing Kraken and getting the actual loot not always manage to also grab all of the tenticles as they might all get killed during the attempt of collecting them.
This way, there is also the chance that not only 1 group of players obtain an Ink Sac which forces them into a price-war when they are trying to sell it outside their group, resulting in a drop of price ?
Overall, I believe a change has to happen first to see the impact on the economy. So people should be open to a change and just see it for themselves. It can always be reverted and I doubt a week or two of a change will make things unrevertable.
Malcomfedex
New Member
This is a bad change. Don't put exclusive world boss loot outside of killing said world boss. Like previously mentioned, if you want specific boss loot pony up the money to buy it from someone who killed it or kill it yourself like the game intended.
What you'll end up having is less people motivated to go out to kraken. You do realize that people went to kraken for that drop and soon the only motivation will be the weapon drops that are for specific classes? Hard to motivate a group of people to spent the time necessary when you're taking away the reward.
Truthfully in my absent opinion and based on the history I have with this server, there either need to be more polls on game changing decisions or more opinionated people bitching the opposing side. The admins on here have historically made decisions unilaterally or in the absence of public opinion with the hopes that they won't get chewed out by the most veteran and experienced players. I have no idea how anyone tolerates this mentally of server management on either side, whether you benefit or not you should see there's something wrong with them making a decision and asking for forgiveness instead of having a real debate first and foremost on all major game changing updates
This is a bad idea. Other people have already mentioned why the inc sac helps make Kraken important. I personally know people that only stay at Kraken when their raid is having a hard time because they need an ink sac or they have friends who do, and they want to do their best to make sure their group kills it so they can get one. Large scale open world PvP can only really exist in any balanced stage if there's adequate numbers on every side, and taking away an incentive as big as the thought of getting an ink sac (or an ink sac split) can pretty easily destroy the already poor balance. There are a lot of people that end up having a lot of fun at Kraken, and a very large part of the reason the server's still alive is the active raid v raid playerbase. It should be fairly obvious how this change is harmful to AR's activity.
Also leaving it as a small RNG drop is pretty silly. I think the admins thought process is that "anyone can roll it so anyone can get an ink sac if they want one, and it'll incentivize PvP since players will want to fight / steal a high value pack." This doesn't work for pretty obvious reasons. Naturally it doesn't matter if anyone can roll it because you have to leave the middle island to turn it in. Guilds would already camp the crafting bench with 30+ man raids and destroy anyone who wanted to craft, and that's with the packs only being worth 150g, which means it's not a huge loss if you miss one. With a single pack being worth 10k+ (assuming this severely devalues the ink sac), strong nations like Pending Collapse, ENDGAME, and whatever name uwu's going to use will just monopolize the pack crafting because it would be ridiculous to let someone craft an ink sac. Small scale PvP likely won't happen in a context like this since anyone with fewer numbers won't be able to craft or steal packs. This might incentivize raid v raid PvP, but abyssal itself isn't a great area to fight raid v raid and ultimately it's too easy to lose a single pack in a scale like this. Abyssal isn't great to fight raid v raid because of a multitude of factors, like common dumb LoS issues, the abyssal island debuff making it incredibly hard to have a decent fight before channeling finished, and the geometry of the island just being ill-suited to fight with large numbers at. As for the second point, it's very, very easy for a player to lose a pack in AA. Kraken takes ~4 minutes to kill uncontested from 100% to 0% (which is arguably too low, but I digress), RD takes ~15 minutes to kill uncontested. It takes like 30 seconds at most to kill the tankiest player in the game. And once that player's dead the pack is most likely gone. At Kraken you normally get at least 2 full wipes before a given raid is able to burn it. With a single, ultra-valuable pack you'll only get one attempt. Once it's stolen, it's incredibly easy to dodge the enemy raid (with shroudlights and incredibly fast eternal merches with corpse breathers) straight to a peace zone turn in (diamond shores, austera, etc.)
The fundamental reasoning behind making a change like this is to: lower the cost of inc sac items (good idea!), and incentivize players to go to abyssal (also a good idea!). The admins seem to have their hearts in the right place, at the least.
But there are plenty of good ways to accomplish both of these things without having to resort to an RNG drop that doesn't even correctly incentivize PvP. An obvious change, already suggested multiple times, would be to just have kraken drop more ink sacs. It leaves kraken as a valuable boss and also lowers the price of individual ink sacs. Nations still do RD regularly when it drops multiple spinal ridges, so it seems like an obvious way to lower the cost of ink sacs without strongly hurting Kraken attendance.
This isn't the only possible change for ink sacs, though. If the admins are strongly opposed to simply making Kraken drop more sacs for whatever reason, they could add it to events in a way that doesn't rely on an RNG drop. Some ideas:
Also leaving it as a small RNG drop is pretty silly. I think the admins thought process is that "anyone can roll it so anyone can get an ink sac if they want one, and it'll incentivize PvP since players will want to fight / steal a high value pack." This doesn't work for pretty obvious reasons. Naturally it doesn't matter if anyone can roll it because you have to leave the middle island to turn it in. Guilds would already camp the crafting bench with 30+ man raids and destroy anyone who wanted to craft, and that's with the packs only being worth 150g, which means it's not a huge loss if you miss one. With a single pack being worth 10k+ (assuming this severely devalues the ink sac), strong nations like Pending Collapse, ENDGAME, and whatever name uwu's going to use will just monopolize the pack crafting because it would be ridiculous to let someone craft an ink sac. Small scale PvP likely won't happen in a context like this since anyone with fewer numbers won't be able to craft or steal packs. This might incentivize raid v raid PvP, but abyssal itself isn't a great area to fight raid v raid and ultimately it's too easy to lose a single pack in a scale like this. Abyssal isn't great to fight raid v raid because of a multitude of factors, like common dumb LoS issues, the abyssal island debuff making it incredibly hard to have a decent fight before channeling finished, and the geometry of the island just being ill-suited to fight with large numbers at. As for the second point, it's very, very easy for a player to lose a pack in AA. Kraken takes ~4 minutes to kill uncontested from 100% to 0% (which is arguably too low, but I digress), RD takes ~15 minutes to kill uncontested. It takes like 30 seconds at most to kill the tankiest player in the game. And once that player's dead the pack is most likely gone. At Kraken you normally get at least 2 full wipes before a given raid is able to burn it. With a single, ultra-valuable pack you'll only get one attempt. Once it's stolen, it's incredibly easy to dodge the enemy raid (with shroudlights and incredibly fast eternal merches with corpse breathers) straight to a peace zone turn in (diamond shores, austera, etc.)
The fundamental reasoning behind making a change like this is to: lower the cost of inc sac items (good idea!), and incentivize players to go to abyssal (also a good idea!). The admins seem to have their hearts in the right place, at the least.
But there are plenty of good ways to accomplish both of these things without having to resort to an RNG drop that doesn't even correctly incentivize PvP. An obvious change, already suggested multiple times, would be to just have kraken drop more ink sacs. It leaves kraken as a valuable boss and also lowers the price of individual ink sacs. Nations still do RD regularly when it drops multiple spinal ridges, so it seems like an obvious way to lower the cost of ink sacs without strongly hurting Kraken attendance.
This isn't the only possible change for ink sacs, though. If the admins are strongly opposed to simply making Kraken drop more sacs for whatever reason, they could add it to events in a way that doesn't rely on an RNG drop. Some ideas:
- The hasla rift bosses, which are completely useless currently, could be replaced with a much harder boss that players can fight over. It would require changing Nui spawns etc. since they're currently rather imbalanced at Hasla, but that's a good change anyway. Perhaps, after the bosses from both rifts die (or one rift, in the case of the earlier Hasla), a harder version of Anthalon that has new mechanics that no one has ever seen before can spawn. Something that is fun to fight around and encourages raid v raid PvP. This boss drops an ink sac. If you wanted the drop to make thematic sense you could also make it a squid or something, it doesn't matter. This would triple the amount of ink sacs in the current economy, incentivize raid v raid PvP, and let the weaker factions (east / west) have a chance at getting ink sacs, since the earlier rift isn't just free-farmed by player nations.
- Similar to 1 but for abyssal. Just add a boss that players want to fight over at abyssal, or anything that makes more sense than an RNG pack spawn. It could be, that after the pack bench despawns, a different kraken spawns with different mechanics. Or a king of the hill-like system where nations have to keep hold of mid for a certain amount of time, since it doesn't necessarily have to be a boss. It just has to be consistent.
- Just remove the ink sac part of the recipe, replace it with something else, and buff how much tentacles are worth or let the sac be vendored for gold.
- Just buff the gold the packs give. It already isn't contested incredibly heavily because Kraken tends to overlap with it, most of the time players are pretty tired after kraken and just don't want to bother.
- Make the event less boring. Abyssal currently has an issue where it's super easy to just summon a gally and camp guardstones, and drive around the entire arena, dodging pvp, until people get tired of it and leave. I know because I've personally stalled out abyssals on this server vs PN, east, etc. raids with 4 idiots on my galleon shelling the guardstones, then channeled at the last moment and turned packs in since people left. Rework the channeling mechanic to make it less fragile; it shouldn't require co-ordination between multiple factions to stop 5 jerks with a boat. Make it harder to kill the person channeling. It's super easy for any decent damage class to just honor nodachi and pop anyone channeling mid, regardless of how tanky they are. You could even just remove the channeling mechanic entirely. It burns players out and doesn't really accomplish much in the way of letting players have fun, if they don't enjoy making everyone else super upset with them. The pack PvP tends to be fun in and of itself though. Reworking abyssal to be less terrible is probably the easiest way to fix the event.
- Schedule it so it doesn't overlap with Kraken. If the admins want to keep it as an alternative event to Kraken, then obviously don't do this. Otherwise, the current schedule makes it super hard to attend both, and abyssal tends to get ignored over Kraken for previously mentioned reasons. I personally have much more fun at Kraken, but enjoy aby, so it's sort of lame to me that I can't make it to both.
fireblast768
New Member
you do know that if lets say I need the ink sack out of 100-200 in the raid going for it dose that mean I am guarantee to get it for free or a fair price not the 60k its apparently gong for or they can make anoughter event that is in the game that also has multi raids and pvp that cant even guarantee a drop for those not wanting to waste 10 hours of there lives and you know may actuly have a life out side of the game or not have 60k to just use on the drop to also have a chance again a chance it is not a guaranteed drop and if this was brought in it would also cause a lot of pvp at the island to try and get these packs also just a note you don't have to be so rude to the moderators personally I think there doing a fine job at being accommodating to all there player base not just the 6-8k gear score players
It’s still in the development, meaning nothing is yet confirmed. The only basic idea that will remain for sure – adding more Kraken Ink Sac to the game.
The methods to add the extra items and for players to obtain them is something not yet confirmed as we have a few basic ideas. One of them was posted in this thread originally.
Another alternative method of adding Kraken Ink Sac to the game (to the Kraken event itself, not Abyssal Kraken) that we have is the following:
As you know, upon dying, the Kraken will release Tentacles into the water. These can be collected and worn like trade packs.
The extra packs will be dropped after the Kraken death. That will be Kraken Ink Sac packs that will be possible to turn in for Kraken Ink Sac only.
Such method will also add more PvP and give the chances to all the participants, no matter if they were in the raid that finally killed Kraken.
The methods to add the extra items and for players to obtain them is something not yet confirmed as we have a few basic ideas. One of them was posted in this thread originally.
Another alternative method of adding Kraken Ink Sac to the game (to the Kraken event itself, not Abyssal Kraken) that we have is the following:
As you know, upon dying, the Kraken will release Tentacles into the water. These can be collected and worn like trade packs.
The extra packs will be dropped after the Kraken death. That will be Kraken Ink Sac packs that will be possible to turn in for Kraken Ink Sac only.
Such method will also add more PvP and give the chances to all the participants, no matter if they were in the raid that finally killed Kraken.
Lionheart
New Member
Sparkle, I mentioned the same idea to my guildies yesterday, since you have the capability to change what packs give, just bring out a 4th type of tentacle that gives ink sacs, 3-5 max should drop at the end of the raid (maybe even widen the radius that the tentacles drop to make it harder for 1 group to collect all).
I feel like in general Kraken and Abyssal have a delicate balance right now on this server, simply because you get all the hardcore pvpers going to Kraken, and the more casuals can go to Abyssal without having to worried about the hardcore players.
By adding Ink Sac to the Abyssal Event, what will most likely end up happening is all those hardcore pvpers would send 1 galleon each to stop the channel, or keep 5 people at normal Kraken, and send their raids to lock down Abyssal.
Either way the casuals will get bullied out of an event that right now at least they can enjoy and make some gold.
I also like Kusuda's idea with the Hasla Rift bosses. They are currently pointless, loads of potential for something to be added there.
I feel like in general Kraken and Abyssal have a delicate balance right now on this server, simply because you get all the hardcore pvpers going to Kraken, and the more casuals can go to Abyssal without having to worried about the hardcore players.
By adding Ink Sac to the Abyssal Event, what will most likely end up happening is all those hardcore pvpers would send 1 galleon each to stop the channel, or keep 5 people at normal Kraken, and send their raids to lock down Abyssal.
Either way the casuals will get bullied out of an event that right now at least they can enjoy and make some gold.
I also like Kusuda's idea with the Hasla Rift bosses. They are currently pointless, loads of potential for something to be added there.
This is a WAY better solution to the problem. It still keeps the Ink Sacs at the same event and gives people more reason to come out to kraken and pvp. Not only that the guild that gets the kraken kill isnt always the one that will win the fight in the water so its kind of like a perfect :second place" prize for whoever is there.
Winglord
Member
^
I like the spread of the tentacle loot wayyyyy out further!
Also, I would like to suggest that perhaps you could have Kraken drop "ink drops" Then perhaps 100 drops = ink sac.
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Poll has been added to the thread
If 100% of the loot still stays with the same people, it's just going to be bottlenecking the supply and controlling market price. You know, like having a nation leader hoarding tens of thousands of LC.
This would still ensure a high chance that 100% of the Ink Sacs are still within the same group, and therefore give them the same exact stranglehold on the market.
At any rate, I didn't even realize the initial post was about the Abyssal Kraken. It should not be about the Abyssal Kraken, but something should be done about the Kraken itself so there aren't 8 hour Krakens in the first place before we even think about increasing the supply of it to the server by other means.
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