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Mirage Isle Races current set of rules

Vexaro

Member
I wasn't going to post at all, but was suggested by some of the folk managing the event to do as much, so i'll give it a try.

We were made aware, during todays races, that you are now to be DQed from racing a second time if you're in the top 3 for the first race, that the rule was in the book already, but is now to be strictly enforced. And apparently the reason for this, is because "there were complaints". Skipping just how curious i am about what kind of "complaints" anyone could possibly have about the weekend races, i was wondering how sensible @Sparkle or any of the admins think these rules are. After todays first race, half the west raid under Ariess just left Mirage. Why is anyone being excluded?

Multiple times now, i've had the opportunity to go along in a judge car watching over racers. During these rides, you witness all kinds of things, like people hitting the turbo on their cars while facing the water, which logic dictates will jettison them straight into the ocean, speeding and crashing into large immovable objects (rocks, trees) like they're not there, people swerving into the next guy to crash them, with both crashing, or like in todays races, straight AFK players, with the judge just sitting there trying to call them back to the race.

From here, because i, or anyone else, managed to top any of these, we are to be punished. Today, i couldn't take part in skateboards primarily because during kitty races i didn't afk, or threw the kitty car off a cliff, or launched it against a boulder. That seems fair.

Everyone has the same chance to win races, is this not true, is the event not merit based? and the more players that join, the better. Just looking at the forum threads Ariess posts about the races and respective results, starting June 23rd and ending July 21st, we can see that in the last 5 Mirage Isle Race events, there were 15 different players in top3 (no DQ rule enforced), and in some of these weeks there were only 5 to 6 people showing up to race at all, so its hardly as if only 2 or 3 ever win prizes.

Some reviewing of the "new" rules, or rule, would be great, but tbh my hopes jettisoned themselves into the ocean with the other guy.
 
This rule was in the event thread from the very first day of the event.
In case we hold more than 1 type of the Races within a day/week, winner of 1 type can't participate in another type of the races same week.
That was a mistake of the event runners and participants as both sides overlooked it.
It was noticed on my side and brought to the other event runners attention. This rule is available from the event start and being ignored does not remove it.

But the rule can be changed to be dependent on the number of participants joining the event or removed (for example, if 80% of the participant agree for it to be removed prior each week race event start). Or, even better, to avoid such complaints on the rule that is not unique for this event but applied to many events, so others could receive their fair chance as well, we can change the event to be 1 type of race only a week.

Feel free to discuss it further and we'll go from there.
 
Feel free to discuss it further and we'll go from there.
I was going to do a poll, but not that many people do the races, and even fewer participate in races AND come to the forums. Discussing will go the same way, im not expecting ten people to chime in.

The problem i have with that DQ rule is that, you kick people out of races at their most enjoyable points. Racing with 5 or 6 is fun, but yesterday there were so many people we actually ended up with two starting lines (you were there, i saw your screenshots earlier). Those are the races you want to participate in, not get kicked out of. I would imagine the "complaints" are all about showing up and getting something, getting prizes and the likes. If the problem is prizes, why don't you maybe expand the pool when alot of people show up, and do say, a top 5, something like:

1. 3000
2. 2000
3. 1000
4. 500
5. 500

...or 1000 for 4th and 5th. This would already make 5 of 6 participants in the final races of the category, win. If theres few participants that weekend, you keep top 3 prizes only. Decor for top 3 could be gold, silver and bronze cups just like it is now, while 4th and 5th could get a custom medal that you guys make. I dont know its a thought. Im just opposed to kicking anybody out just because they do well, no matter the race, or how many people decided to show up.

If you want to kill one of the races, i guess thats another way to go, if it was up to me there would be 3 or 4, but it'd probably drive Ariess insane form sitting around.
 
I was going to do a poll, but not that many people do the races, and even fewer participate in races AND come to the forums. Discussing will go the same way, im not expecting ten people to chime in.

The problem i have with that DQ rule is that, you kick people out of races at their most enjoyable points. Racing with 5 or 6 is fun, but yesterday there were so many people we actually ended up with two starting lines (you were there, i saw your screenshots earlier). Those are the races you want to participate in, not get kicked out of. I would imagine the "complaints" are all about showing up and getting something, getting prizes and the likes. If the problem is prizes, why don't you maybe expand the pool when alot of people show up, and do say, a top 5, something like:

1. 3000
2. 2000
3. 1000
4. 500
5. 500

...or 1000 for 4th and 5th. This would already make 5 of 6 participants in the final races of the category, win. If theres few participants that weekend, you keep top 3 prizes only. Decor for top 3 could be gold, silver and bronze cups just like it is now, while 4th and 5th could get a custom medal that you guys make. I dont know its a thought. Im just opposed to kicking anybody out just because they do well, no matter the race, or how many people decided to show up.

If you want to kill one of the races, i guess thats another way to go, if it was up to me there would be 3 or 4, but it'd probably drive Ariess insane form sitting around.


Afaik people don't get kicked from races.. they just are not allowed to win more than once a day, so if you win the first race then:

In case we hold more than 1 type of the Races within a day/week, winner of 1 type can't participate in another type of the races same week.

Idk why yours and Sparkle's topics of your posts are so different?
 
People are not kicked from the races when they win. They can race in the next race. Only in doing so they do not take the place of a winning racer.
With that they get to join the practice and 2 qualifiers races which is the same total of 3 racers that if they win would count for. Only they do not get any reward for staying around.
Nobody gets kicked from races besides the few who get caught cheating and I call out a DQ for
 
To be honest, I had a lot of fun in the races and I am happy that so many showed up. My only suggestion at this time would be to add fences or something else at the downhill cliffs so others cannot push you in the ocean. When that happens, race is over for you :(
 
Idk why yours and Sparkle's topics of your posts are so different?
They seem like the exact same posts, in english too, so i don't understand those comprehension difficulties. "can't participate" means what? cannot take part, you are out of any other given race because you did well the first time.

And if you ARE allowed to participate any further, like Sjin is saying (not what Sparkle posted, so clarification is welcomed), you have now just become an obstacle to whoever is actually trying to race. Say i was allowed to go on the skateboards this weekend, but im just "racing" im just there to be there, but the guy behind me is trying to get a cool prize. Now i crashed, my skate is going all over the place, this guy inevitably crashed into me, he was 2nd place just a second ago, when he gets back on the track hes dead last and no chance of getting anywhere near top 3. What did we fix?

Adding to that, this DQ rule does not work in the slightest, because the 3 people you kick out, or "disqualify", or "do not allow to participate", pick your version, will simply get replaced by another 3 competent racers, and you will keep hearing the same "complaints". i.e. look at this weekends results, you took out the first 3 from 1st race to "help complaints", yet who was it that completely smashed second race on skates? the kalindor fellow, because he can race. There are several players that show up and can race the mounts, then theres others that can't and complain, so a great way to address it is to, in my opinion, expand the prize pool when alot of people show up, they get prizes and you don't push anybody away. Having 5 out of 6 finalists get prizes on a busy weekend expands the number of winners greatly. If only a handful of people show up, then you restrict prizes to top 3 only.

And as expected, not having polls seems was justified, the only people chiming in are Sjin the mod, Sparkle the admin, and Qisna, the only legitimate racer participant in this thread, whos opinion should be taken into consideration. If the man had told me he was sad he didn't get a prize, i would have shared credits with him on the spot. People need to show up to enjoy themselves first and foremost.
 
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They seem like the exact same posts, in english too, so i don't understand those comprehension difficulties. "can't participate" means what? cannot take part, you are out of any other given race because you did well the first time.

Well now you say something different. First you said "kicked from races" now it's "not allowed to participate", two different things that you use for the same purpose.. It is confusing, because the first one implies they were participating in the first place, which they weren't.

And I think it's fair to split the winnings between more people, I would be happy if I won once, I'm not so greedy that I want to win another time. I understand their decision to exclude winners from another race on the same day. Besides, you can try win again when its organised in the following weeks...


What would be another solution, is maybe allow winners of the first race to participate in the second, but not be eligible for winning, so just participate for the fun and others will get prizes. That way both the devs and the players can meet in the middle. @Sparkle
 
Its like reading is just too 90s.
Well now you say something different. First you said "kicked from races" now it's "not allowed to participate", two different things that you use for the same purpose.. It is confusing, because the first one implies they were participating in the first place, which they weren't.
You're playing with words and wasting my time. The rule is pushing the racers out of the races, kicking them out, disqualifying them, "not allowing to take part". And i just posted that.
And I think it's fair to split the winnings between more people, I would be happy if I won once, I'm not so greedy that I want to win another time. I understand their decision to exclude winners from another race on the same day. Besides, you can try win again when its organised in the following weeks...
I just posted this too. You're not sharing anything with "more" people, because the players that couldn't beat Deekay, or Helf, or Tsipos, or Kalindor (kalimdur? something), or Skuldi, or anybody else like them, and theres a few, you are not winning a damn thing until you get those guys all out of the race, the people "complaining" now will keep doing it because they still haven't won. So whats wrong with expanding the winners pool? theres events on the forums with up to 7th and 8th place being winners, is that right? whats so bad about an occasional top 5 on races? its not even permanent, this last weekend was an exception, with how many people showed up, the event has been going on for months and that was a first. So IF you do have a busy weekend like that, why not share it among more people, is this not the goal?
What would be another solution, is maybe allow winners of the first race to participate in the second, but not be eligible for winning, so just participate for the fun and others will get prizes. That way both the devs and the players can meet in the middle. @Sparkle
Look at that, i just posted on this too.

If you allow other, non competing racers on the track, they will all become obstacles. You're trying to get somewhere, they're not. People already bump into each other, even on final races where only 6 are in, but you want extras in there, people not racing for anything, another 3 bumping into cars, or crashing the next guy. Solid plan. Have you ever even taken part in the mirage isle races? just doesn't seem like it.

Hello? you guys that wanted me to post because "it makes a difference", hoping you picking up on why i didn't want to open a thread in the fist place. Im out, take care everyone.
 
Vexaro you do bring up some good points and I will still need to discuss this further with Sparkle but I'm going to propose a different format that hopefully will fix a lot of issues with the races.

I would like to run just one type of race each week now regardless of the turnout. Now the turnout will determine the amount of prizes we give out each given week. Changing this will eliminate any further complaints from players whom feel they get no chance to win when we allow the better racers to compete for prizes in both races and also this new format will eliminate the clutter of racers on the track when we have a huge turn out.

My changes would be as follows:

Round One - Practice Round all players will do this together regardless of turnout as the clutter wont matter in the practice round as it is just that practice.

Round Two - Qualifying rounds. We will run as many rounds as it takes to get through all the players that show up. (Depending on the amount of players that show up) Each race will have 4-10 players max and the top 3 of each round will qualify for the finals.

Round Three - Finals. All players that qualified will run in the last race and we will award prizes to the top 6 finishers in this race.

What do you guys think and keep in mind I will still have to run this by Sparkle but I think it wont be an issue. So now guys what do you think of these proposed changes?
 
Its like reading is just too 90s.

You're playing with words and wasting my time. The rule is pushing the racers out of the races, kicking them out, disqualifying them, "not allowing to take part". And i just posted that.

I just posted this too. You're not sharing anything with "more" people, because the players that couldn't beat Deekay, or Helf, or Tsipos, or Kalindor (kalimdur? something), or Skuldi, or anybody else like them, and theres a few, you are not winning a damn thing until you get those guys all out of the race, the people "complaining" now will keep doing it because they still haven't won. So whats wrong with expanding the winners pool? theres events on the forums with up to 7th and 8th place being winners, is that right? whats so bad about an occasional top 5 on races? its not even permanent, this last weekend was an exception, with how many people showed up, the event has been going on for months and that was a first. So IF you do have a busy weekend like that, why not share it among more people, is this not the goal?

Look at that, i just posted on this too.

If you allow other, non competing racers on the track, they will all become obstacles. You're trying to get somewhere, they're not. People already bump into each other, even on final races where only 6 are in, but you want extras in there, people not racing for anything, another 3 bumping into cars, or crashing the next guy. Solid plan. Have you ever even taken part in the mirage isle races? just doesn't seem like it.

Hello? you guys that wanted me to post because "it makes a difference", hoping you picking up on why i didn't want to open a thread in the fist place. Im out, take care everyone.
/

I don't play with words, I use them with their right definitions. Sorry if that offends you but it did genuinely confuse me at first (no offense to you when I am the one that got confused), hence why I said it seemed there was 2 different topics going on. Just meant that as to ask for clarification.

Also, I didn't mean the share the winnings the way you did, you said to share more prizes with more people, like 1-6 prizes. I just said, give others a chance to win in the 2nd race by only participating+winning in the first.

And my bad, I didnt see that you suggested to participate without winning. Oh, wait you didnt, you suggested the opposite from what I gather, because they would be obstacles? (Thinking out loud here)
But, even if they get first place, they wouldnt win, because then the one after would win instead? Idk if it really matters that they would serve as obstacles?
 
Vexaro you do bring up some good points and I will still need to discuss this further with Sparkle but I'm going to propose a different format that hopefully will fix a lot of issues with the races.

I would like to run just one type of race each week now regardless of the turnout. Now the turnout will determine the amount of prizes we give out each given week. Changing this will eliminate any further complaints from players whom feel they get no chance to win when we allow the better racers to compete for prizes in both races and also this new format will eliminate the clutter of racers on the track when we have a huge turn out.

My changes would be as follows:

Round One - Practice Round all players will do this together regardless of turnout as the clutter wont matter in the practice round as it is just that practice.

Round Two - Qualifying rounds. We will run as many rounds as it takes to get through all the players that show up. (Depending on the amount of players that show up) Each race will have 4-10 players max and the top 3 of each round will qualify for the finals.

Round Three - Finals. All players that qualified will run in the last race and we will award prizes to the top 6 finishers in this race.

What do you guys think and keep in mind I will still have to run this by Sparkle but I think it wont be an issue. So now guys what do you think of these proposed changes?


Thanks for taking all these ramblings in, Ariess xD

It sounds good, seems like a nice way to have certain stages of strictness in the races, and should make the final race that more challenging.
 
Just had a discussion with Sparkle and we both like these changes I'm posting now in this response:

1st round - Practice
2nd; 3rd; 4th; etc - rounds with 5-7 participants and 2 winners in each round as a result.
next round - round for those who lost but get a 2nd chance (also 2 winners).
final round - all rounds winners compete for 5 winning places (6 places if we have many competitors in the final).

Again let us know your response if you like this and if so we can have these changes ready for this Sunday's Races.
 
Sounds good Ariess. I like the structure and the fact that the ones that don't win in qualifying rounds, have a second chance to get into the final round.

I will also add myself (if it is allowed), 1K credits or the equilevant amount of gold at that time for one winner of any participants who didn't win any prize.

The winner will be picked randomly through an online random picker site/tool and will be announced along with the image, inside the post of the winner announcement you guys do every weekend. If I am not at the race, please provide me a screenshot with the participants.
 
You think those rules could be adjusted again, Ariess?

Today we had 15 mns of racing and 45 mns of afking on the sidelines for most the racers, alot weren't happy. I came here to make noise the first time for that very reason, not have people excluded. I reckon the reason you reduced the participants in qualifiers to just 7 at once was to avoid crashes, people bumping into each other, have things more organized, is that right? if it is, it doesn't work at all, most of everyone still races like they're doing destruction derby.

So, what do you think of letting everyone race and have 9 finalists? order would be like:

1. Trial, everyone races
2. First qualifier, everyone races, 3 qualified.
3. Second qualifier, everyone races minus the 3 first qualified, another 3 qualified.
4. Third qualifier, once again everyone races, 3 more qualified racers.

And 5. Final race, 9 finalists, up to 6 winners as you are doing now.

And looking at that, its kind of like the old structure, but with one more qualifier and double the winners in the final, which is going to help with "complaints" hopefully. There are still a couple of people left out like this, but at least its not 80% of attendance. Everyone gets to participate, and do up to 4 races, whether or not they're expert racers. For the first time since doing this event, i was alt+tabbing out of the game, with the amount of waiting we were all doing between any racing. We come in to fool around in the vehicles, when 20+ people show up to do so and get sidelined for 45 minutes instead, thats a bit of a problem. Of any convos i shared ingame, everyone responded positively to racing more often "sure that'd be alot of fun, and probably give me a better chance" and so on and so forth, but in the next line they tell me they don't even come to the forums. Maybe discuss it with Sparkle? ask people that raced today, on discord, somewhere? dunno.

P.S.: another racer also suggested we are given ghost cars, so crashing into others just to send them off the track becomes impossible, which sounds great, but im not sure if you can even do that.
 
Great thoughts and we will as always listen to our players and make adjustments as needed but for now we will continue to test this new format and will probably make further adjustments as needed moving forward.
 
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