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Short: Buff Archery

If any Archery based Class isnt using Hearty Warriors Guards in there spec they are Wrong. it was Tested extensively on Tahyang and found that these are truely Best in slot for Most all Archery Classes. I play a Druid, spec'd mostly for Combat Medic spec and even at 3k GS Im viable. I don't run 1 v 1 combat, but that is my personal style. but My small group is dominant in open world. we have a SK, Druid, Combat Ranger, Mage. and can 4 v 6+ even GS. the thing is all classes outside of the Battlerage spectrum have to Min-Max their Gear and Gems.. Focus, Resiliance, Evasion, are the 3 primary for Archery, DefPen is a close second. Movement is Key. but also know Archery as a Damage Tree is only as good as the person behind the screen. if you are close enough to smell them, your gonna die, unless you have a Pocket SkullKnight.
 
I've read this thread back when i changed my mind about playing Spellsinger, sold my gear and re-rolled Primeval. I didn't pay too much attention to the statements / suggestions in this thread, but now that I am at 6.5K gearscore with 930 ranged attack & 1.1K agility without buffs, i can very much agree/disagree with much that is written here.

The issue with archery is that you require a much higher stage of gear to be effective. The class is not weak.
archery is not a dualing class. It's a raid class. There's a lot of mechanics to being an effective archer

While I do agree that there are indeed a lot of mechanics that need proper usage from a player to be an effective archer, I disagree with you saying that the class is not weak. You say that you need a much higher stage of gear to be effective, and while I do agree that it indeed slowly starts to shine once you have proper gear, it is far from being on par with how mages for example scale at the very end. A mage of the same gearscore as me, can easily take away at least 15K of my HP with a single Arc Lightning after he applied shock with God's Whip. The skills damage is actually so insane, nothing of Archery comes even remotely close to it. I've heard guild-members getting shut down by Chumps Arc Lightning for 80k crit. Yes Archery get's stronger, but other Trees just have their damage blow through the roof end-game.
Another point that you say is, that Archery is a raid class. I do agree, it's playstyle synergizes with it but really, you don't do any damage to anyone. In Mistmerrow, I cannot take down anyone above 6K that isn't Leather or basically spec'd entirely for DPS. Tanky plate classes have way too much defense, and cloth classes are stacked up with damage reduction, shields & Defense skill-trees and full of heals and buffs thanks to using Defense, Vitalism & a Songcraft player in their raid.
The only people I seem to be doing reasonable damage to are classes such as DR that focus someone else, or Mages that don't use Defense.
The fact that a shield can be used by any class and Archery being so weak, makes it nearly impossible to kill even the which-are-supposed-to-be-squishy classes.

An archer isn't meant to kill abolishers of other tank classes. Archers shine against cloth usesers.
There are 4 core items to be an effective archer
Strong bow, divine obs or vengeful wings is good enough.
Defence pen accessories. Gale rings lightning necklace.
T3 focus gems.
You can have these at 4k Gs. And once you achieve this you will notice how effective you can be

I agree that you aren't supposed to be killing classes that stack physical defense. But saying that Archers shine against cloth users, when like 50% of them use the Defense Tree & shields, then you won't be dealing damage either way.
You claim that a "Divine Obsidian Bow or Mistsong Weapon is enough" - I'm sorry but how can you say that ? I'm running an Epic Ayanad Tidal Bow with 592dps & additional 4x6.0 ranged attack gems, 4piece divine delphinad gale to reach 1.1K agility, I have an epic delphinad lightning necklace, a divine & epic delphinad gale ring all with 3.0 ranged attack, and my damage against any class is making them laugh behind their screen. I've hit a 6.8K DR whose only defense buff was a Kingdom's Shadow potion, with a berserk nodachi-deadeye buffed snipe for 3.8K. 5 minutes later he ambushed me in stealth with a shadowsmite that hit me for 15K crit...
I'm at 6.5K now and still waiting to "notice how effective i can be".

And a lot of its vital abilities are lodged in the Shadowplay tree - which is great, I guess, if you really want shadowplay. But the fact that a lot of damage comes from targets being poisoned is pitiful. A 5 second debuff on a 7 second cooldown to deal an extra 40%+ or so damage with an attack that fluctuates wildly is terrible.

In the original Tier List for ArcheAge 3.0, the >best< classes in the game, that were over tuned, were as follows: (S+ Rating, highest rating)
But out of these listed classes, let's note something here.

>6 of these classes have Defense as one of their Talent Trees. This makes them really hard to challenge as an Archer because of your pitiful damage against their massive HP pools, self recovery, and high armor. Even with really high defense penetration, they will outdamage you 9 times out of 10 because the base damage is so poor. Of these six, four are magic focused, meaning they nullify Archer's advantage against them.

>7 of these classes are melee classes, five of which do NOT have Defense in their tree. Meaning that these classes still counter Archery because they will have a flat 20% damage reduction in close range, on top of the fact that most of them have more CC options and gap closers that rip Archers to shreds.

>Melee classes are nearly immune to Ranger damage, while Magic classes have such powerful gear late game that even with cloth armor, their damage absorption is high against low damage attacks. Which Archery suffers from.

>Archery has few CC and stun options, and less combos than most classes.

But a lot of people say that melee is a counter to Ranged. And it's 100% true. Battlerage is given the ability to shrug off 90% of all CC, jump over obstacles, and pretty much ignores snare. On top of that, they have the ability to parry ranged attack with an offhand weapon. And they have increased parry chance when dual wielding. Additionally, parrying an attack resets all of their cooldowns. And a lot of their abilities inflict trip.

So even if you Snare them for 10 minutes straight, endless arrows can be parried, resetting their cooldown on their abilities that break snare. Then they can cast a free gap closer.

And Magic users can still CC Archers to death, often giving them no time to do anything about it.

Honestly, this guy knows what's up. I don't agree with all of it, for example, he claims that Primevals have 0 Stun Immunities (shrug it off has it) but mostly the things he mentioned warm my heart, knowing that i share my frustration and thoughts with someone else.

One thing he mentioned was that a lot of vital abilities are locked into Shadowplay. Freerunner which is a must to any Archer, and the Poisoned Arrow is mandatory for Archers aswell.
Also he shows, that many of the top-tier classes use Defense, which sucks to play against as an Archer as I've mentioned myself already.
Melee Players get damage reduction as they WILL be on target most of the fight and therefore take 20% less damage as many of Archery's skills do decreased damage at this distance. Any Melee/Battlerage class, no matter what the other 2 Trees are already superior to Primevals for example. This one tree alone offers:

CCs: Snare (BEL, Charge), Trip (BEL & Charge then Triple Slash), Lasso, Terrifying Roar (increases duration of Sun, Trip, Fear, Shackle, Petrify, Sleep, Impale & Bubble Trap by 25%)
CC-Breaks: Bondbreaker (Snared, Slowed, Lassitude), Terrifying Roar(reduces the duration of Stun, Trip, Fear, Shackle, Petrify, Sleep, Impale & Bubble Trap by 25%), Reckless Charge (decreases duration of Shackle, Slow, Snare & Impale of 35% for 4 seconds), BEL (Bubble-Trap, Petrify, Telekinesis)
Gap-Closers: (BEL, Charge, Tigerstrike)
Utilities: Tons of melee(crit)damage passives, Skill-Tree resets, parrying arrows, Reckless Charge decreasing Physical Damage by 15%, Puncture ignoring 2K pdef and many more.

I didn't even go over the whole Tree.
42747f3c6ce66241499b51f20d721b33.png

Why is such a strong CC as Snare only removable by Battlerage ? It is the Tree that applies it the most, yet the only way to get rid of it is to be using the Tree yourself. And as if Snare isn't already strong as it is, it also ends up in a guaranteed Trip that NO CLASS in the game that doesn't use Battlerage can avoid.

Any Melee Class (Battlerage) is far superior to Archery with 1 Tree alone already.
Mages share the ranged advantage with Archers and their skills scale in such a stupidly broken way that a single Arc Lightning can kill almost anybody if the target is under shock effect.
Ping also eliminates the ranged advantage for anybody that doesn't live in NA. Ping above 100 can already lead to get mana-star spammed by occultism users while all of your skills are still greyed out as on your screen, he is still 28m+ away.

Make Intensity break fear if you're already feared. Battlerage has moves that drop all CC and grant immunity to it. We should get at least one or two of our own.

Bone yard should stun for 0.8 seconds before the bones summon, so it actually traps people and encages them for a moment. Reason: It can MISS ENTIRELY.

This boneyard suggestion is a VERY good one that really is needed. Having a skill that based on someone's ping can be entirely useless is just stupid. Applying a stun before the cage appears seems to be a very good idea to fix this issue and I am sure the devs can work on this if they really wanted to.

Archers are given so much mobility (in skill and stat), evasion, and we're also given a lot of the same gap closers other classes have. If you compare a primeval to a dark runner we both share the auramancy tree and the shadowplay tree. We also have access to (as a primeval with my current build) numerous slows, stuns, shackles, a snare, a literal cage, a knockdown, and a sleep. Saying we don't have Stuns (or any form of CC for that matter) is simply not true.

"numerous" slows ? the only slows that I am aware of are Charged Bolt (which is guaranteed, yet not slowing down very much), Piercing Shot (increasing the slow effect) & Throw Dagger. for Throw Dagger you either need to be close to your target, which will kill you, or you need to waste a precious gap-creating skill called Backdrop. Most of the time, the last 2 Skills get parried/evaded/shield-blocked anyways.
"numerous" stuns ? where ? the only stuns we have are Throw Dagger - Charged Bolt (but since Throw Dagger gets dodged all the time, this stun renders useless and not a reliable way to stun someone), and Overwhelm which I honestly dropped long time ago because it get's parried or evaded all the time. There go your "numerous" stuns..
Shackle is a nice debuff to apply, but having cast time renders it very very situational. A change I've seen on future patches where Backdrop eliminates it's cast time is someting I'd love to test out. Shadowsmite also requires you to be on target and also missed half the time making you stupid vulnerable to your enemy as you're in melee/most CC range & need to waste a gap-creator to get away.
Using Snare to snare an enemy (healers are an exception) is a dumb idea. Melee Classes will Bondbreak out of it and almost any other class can still hit you with ranged attacks. By using Snare prematurely you're also removing your ability to remove shackle, unless you waste another skill-point into Liberation that you have to pre-cast.
The problem with the Stuns Archers have is that they can all be evaded/parried/shield-blocked. Overwhelm block > no stun neither a trip with Shadowsmite. Throw Dagger block > no stun with Charged Bolt. Snare & blocked Snipe > no trip. Melee classes get almost guaranteed Trips as their snare is only removable by Battlerage itself.
Sleep is useless in Raid vs Raid (which Archery is supposed to be played in) as your target will just take damage from another player and wake up.
Just read what I wrote about the Battlerage Skill-Tree and now compare it with Archery. Yes we share Shadowplay & Auramancy but BR is simply sky-high superior to Archery in every way.

Double Recurve is an amazing buff that grants the user 17% more damage

Boneyard is fine, you need to break out of the walls via a hotkey or in otherwords inconvenience your opponent enough to get yourself proper spacing again.

0*17% is still 0%.
How can you call Double Recurve "an amazing buff" ? WTF. The simple fact that archery is the only skill-tree with such a high damage increasement-skill, yet still being super weak. It shows how stupid weak the Tree is. The 17% should be applied in general and be replaced with a more useful skill.

Saying Boneyard is fine also just demonstrates that you've never regularly used it. You're forced to somehow render a target immobile to apply it, otherwise they'll just run straight out of it. Only having to smack 2 bones to get out in case you did get someone doesn't help much either.



I can't be arsed to write more. Any Advantage that Archery has over other Trees is nullified by their 2nd/3rd Trees. Archery's damage output is weak and most skills require you to be immobilized by standing still, to either cast it or have the effect applied in the first place, something a "mobile" class should not be relying on.

my suggestions:
- remove useless/weak passives such as Eagle Eyes/Archery's Expertise and replace them with proper buffs. (shield defense penetration + rate). Everybody that plays a squishy class can tank Archery simply by equipping a shield and it makes a ton of difference, not only in damage reduction but also in blocking almost every skill.

- remove the ability to evade/shield-block/parry snipe. A skill with cast-time that does no damage when it has been used within the last 6 seconds should not be able to get dodged.

- grant other skill-trees the ability to remove snare. (its BS that only battlerage has it. a tree that inflicts it the most shouldn't be the only tree to remove it).

- increase the duration of the slow debuff from charged bolt from 2.5 to 3 or 3.5 seconds (the slow effect is too short to get any usage out of piercing shots combo effect (increasing the severity of slow effect). besides, piercing shot is not guaranteed to hit.

- make boneyard stun the target for half a second before applying the prison

- increase snares effective radius. ping renders it useless most of the time. i've seen myself hundreds of times shadowstepping a healer trying to snare him but nothing happens as my screen is showing character locations from the past..


just a few ideas.
 
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I hate to say it, I loved Archer back in the day before the live servers ruined it and of course those changes carried over here. I have a high GS archer and as much as I love the character the reality is the class is just garbage. Darkrunners run the server, it's effortless, Mages are the only range class worth giving a shot, everyone else is either playing DR pretty much or Battlerage + whatever when it comes to DPS. For every escape, snare, stun etc. you have a DR will have a CC Break for it and a Gap close. There are literally games I play where 1/2 the movements of the DR you never see, none of it makes sense, he's instantly on your head smacking you for 25% health at least every GCD almost as if they perfectly rubber band on you all day.

I played DR before I played archer in Beta and then again on one of the fresh starts and everytime I've played DR I can literally watch Netflix and take a nap smashing everyone.

The only time you ever have fun on an Archer in this game is if you like to waste your time killing NPCs or hide in a crowed in world PVP and that's just not enough, it's not worth it in it's current state and I don't see anything being done about it.

Don't forget the cute immune proc build everyone goes for so even if you outplay the Battlerage class they're going to get immune proc on you anyway, parry or block it's a straight up joke.
 
If you compare archery to battlerage then sure it's broken. However BR is just easy and doesn't reward creativity much there is only a few ways to play it.
Archery is a challenge to play, it's not just the combos or the gear it's about set up and execution.
You need everything planned out, a simple high agility primeval is crap.

First up plan your base skill build, then your gear and stat migration to play into the strengths. Next is practice, spend time dueling or testing with friends of various different builds, use what you learned to tweak your build to gain advantage over the classes that give you trouble. Archery can reward creativity so don't be afraid to experiment.
Finally get out in the open and learn to use your environment, archery has long range and quick casts allowing you to use height and obstacles to your advantage.
 
Archery is weak, but archery is the only way i can attack some bosses without dying. I guess Archery could use a replacement of skills. Other classes have pasives and skills which are well thought out for the needs of the class. Archery is screwed because our actives are all wierd stuff. We should have a defense break added to our passive at the very least. Even if it is only PVP. This is a raid class and all, but it is currently very lacking in solo play, which makes it only viable with defense, support, or melee mix like soulsong, ebonsong, or primeval.
 
To everyone saying archery is weak, none of you could kill Gacy before he blew up his gear. Archery isn't weak, you're just not that good.
 
I don't think archer is that weak. Yeah if you are talking about 1v1 situation its kinda hard to beat any other skilltree. I am playing Ebonsong, 5.4k GS with an epic t4 bow and the damage output is insane. In any raid situation (small or large PVP) I can beat any DR, mages or healers without any problem. Obviously i'm a glass cannon but this was the way I found to play a really good DPS Archer.
 
so basically what you're saying is: "archery is fine because i can only play it in raids and shoot at braindead darkrunners / cloth users that target someone else and ignore me the entire time until i eventually did enough damage to kill them."

big yikes. ebonsong is the only archery class that, to some degree, can compete with melee/mage damage and if you play anything else, you're just gonna be busy draining mana while kiting or healing yourself without putting out any reasonable damage.

in my book, "beating" someone isn't defined by how long it takes me to hold 1 button to kill a person not fighting back. it's a mixture of knowing your & your enemies class, predicting skills & adapting to just about anything that happens unexpectedly.

I didnt meant that archery is fine, I just said that it's not that weak. If you are going for 1v1, archers looses to basically every other classes . I used to play primeval on retail back in 2.0 and it was pretty good, to keep playing as an archer in this patch, I had to switch to Ebonsong and it's working fine to me. This patch is all about DRs.
 
Let's be honest, if they haven't changed it by now, they're probably not going to, and the majority of players probably disagree with the assertions contained in this thread anyway. You picked a role to play, and are now whining(my god, you do nothing but whine) that you don't like the niche it fills. So play a different class. Archery fills its role adequately.
 
Let's be honest, if they haven't changed it by now, they're probably not going to, and the majority of players probably disagree with the assertions contained in this thread anyway. You picked a role to play, and are now whining(my god, you do nothing but whine) that you don't like the niche it fills. So play a different class. Archery fills its role adequately.

If you have read throughout most of the thread, you can see a theme that everyone is essentially saying other than archery needs buffed. I don’t think anybody can really deny that an archer with a legendary bow does good damage. The main complaint, at least from my interpretation, is that the sheer power difference from your typical 5.5k archer vs melee, which is most of the average pvp playerbase, is ridiculous. A DR with a divine ayanad nodachi vs any archer thats on par gear will, for the most part on paper, get 2-4 shot by the DR while the Archer has to play perfect to stand a chance isn’t something to just shy away with mocking comments. I personally think this is something that needs attention, however this calculation can be tricky for them to change, and probably isn’t as easy of a decision as some articulate it to be.

I think a good start would be to add some base damage while lowering some of the scaling to be more on par with other popular classes. Reworking some of the forementioned passives/skills should be much lower on the priority list, but not bad additions if the math is done correctly. The end game archer is not of as much concern as it is to buff the 5k-6.5k gear score range. The expectation of needing an epic ayanad or better to be relevant is already a steep investment. I hope 3.5 brings some more oomph to archery, and if not hopefully the Staff will at least entertain the thought.
 
If you have read throughout most of the thread, you can see a theme that everyone is essentially saying other than archery needs buffed. I don’t think anybody can really deny that an archer with a legendary bow does good damage. The main complaint, at least from my interpretation, is that the sheer power difference from your typical 5.5k archer vs melee, which is most of the average pvp playerbase, is ridiculous. A DR with a divine ayanad nodachi vs any archer thats on par gear will, for the most part on paper, get 2-4 shot by the DR while the Archer has to play perfect to stand a chance isn’t something to just shy away with mocking comments. I personally think this is something that needs attention, however this calculation can be tricky for them to change, and probably isn’t as easy of a decision as some articulate it to be.

I think a good start would be to add some base damage while lowering some of the scaling to be more on par with other popular classes. Reworking some of the forementioned passives/skills should be much lower on the priority list, but not bad additions if the math is done correctly. The end game archer is not of as much concern as it is to buff the 5k-6.5k gear score range. The expectation of needing an epic ayanad or better to be relevant is already a steep investment. I hope 3.5 brings some more oomph to archery, and if not hopefully the Staff will at least entertain the thought.

What you're saying is that the class that was designed to do one thing specifically does it better than a class that wasn't designed to do that one thing specifically. Of course. That's how it works. Primeval isn't a 1v1 class. Either fill the niche of the role you've picked, or pick another role. Archery is fine the way it is, learn how to play it.
 
What you're saying is that the class that was designed to do one thing specifically does it better than a class that wasn't designed to do that one thing specifically. Of course. That's how it works. Primeval isn't a 1v1 class. Either fill the niche of the role you've picked, or pick another role. Archery is fine the way it is, learn how to play it.
Archery is a skillset with essentially no AoE options. The majority of its damage comes from a buff applied to a single target. Its main combo - a slow - can only be applied to one target.

You're saying that the role Archers are supposed to fill - is AoE zergs, correct? Then how come Archery only has Missile Rain? How come Archery has the lowest damage? How come it has the lowest survivability?

If Archery was built from the ground up to do well in raids, it would deal high AoE damage on a low cooldown, able to slow groups of enemies, and able to disrupt a group of enemies with an AoE CC.

Problem is, it's not. It's not built for that. It's built for single target DPS. But it fails at that horribly. It has no ability to penetrate defenses baked into classes - fine, it should be good against Cloth Users. It has no spell disrupts or silences, okay cool. Maybe it's good against healers. But then the healers out-heal and out-damage them, too.

You say Primeval isn't made to do 1v1s, yet it's essentially a Dark Runner (a class notorious for being powerful in 1v1s) with Battlerage swapped out for Archery. If Battlerage isn't a "problem", and no one sees many issues with Shadowplay or Auramancy, then that leaves one culprit - Archery.

"Archery isn't weak! You just need a later stage of gear-"

Twinking. You need to twink to be effective. That's essentially what everyone who disagrees is saying. To be effective at archery, you need much more powerful gear and min-max your character than people at the same level.

This is an insult to the entire discussion, and to everyone who has compiled their problems here as a whole.

I already left the server. I spent like $50 on it, but when I realized that literally none of my concerns would be taken care of, I quit.

Sorry all. I don't want to play Battlerage.
 
Archery is a skillset with essentially no AoE options. The majority of its damage comes from a buff applied to a single target. Its main combo - a slow - can only be applied to one target.

You're saying that the role Archers are supposed to fill - is AoE zergs, correct? Then how come Archery only has Missile Rain? How come Archery has the lowest damage? How come it has the lowest survivability?

If Archery was built from the ground up to do well in raids, it would deal high AoE damage on a low cooldown, able to slow groups of enemies, and able to disrupt a group of enemies with an AoE CC.

Problem is, it's not. It's not built for that. It's built for single target DPS. But it fails at that horribly. It has no ability to penetrate defenses baked into classes - fine, it should be good against Cloth Users. It has no spell disrupts or silences, okay cool. Maybe it's good against healers. But then the healers out-heal and out-damage them, too.

You say Primeval isn't made to do 1v1s, yet it's essentially a Dark Runner (a class notorious for being powerful in 1v1s) with Battlerage swapped out for Archery. If Battlerage isn't a "problem", and no one sees many issues with Shadowplay or Auramancy, then that leaves one culprit - Archery.

"Archery isn't weak! You just need a later stage of gear-"

Twinking. You need to twink to be effective. That's essentially what everyone who disagrees is saying. To be effective at archery, you need much more powerful gear and min-max your character than people at the same level.

This is an insult to the entire discussion, and to everyone who has compiled their problems here as a whole.

I already left the server. I spent like $50 on it, but when I realized that literally none of my concerns would be taken care of, I quit.

Sorry all. I don't want to play Battlerage.

You are saying something that we didnt said. We didnt said that others Skilltrees arent way more OP, we know that DR (Battlerage) is pretty OP at the moment and it outplays archery in all ways, what I was saying is that Archery has impact in this patch, little impact but yeah it does has. Yes, archery could be better and needs buff in the 3.5 update, but it's not that bad as u guys are all complain.

Well, Missile Rain is pretty bad IMO. If you are looking to do some pretty damage in AOE you should use Snipe and Concussive Shot. I use both and I can crit for 10k+ with zeal.
 
Rofl said so much shit in here.
Makes me wonder what the life of sub 7K archers nowadays are like. Pretty sure I only enjoy it cause I outgear 99% of the server. Hang in there archer buddies. One day you'll be a little less useless.

Still waiting for a boneyard stun/snare tho.
 
As a mage on the other side of the fence, a class that also needs some pretty top tier gear or at the very least some serious compromises to win, and who often complains about the scaling of melee damage, archery is just straight up shit. I may lose 24k health in one shot (WHILE WEARING A SHIELD WHAT) to people like trap (you taylor swift loving shit) and railgun, but at the end of the day, those people outgear me by 1.5x my current gearscore of 7.7k.

Archery lost most of the viability it had wayyyyyyy back in like 2.0. The damage was never addressed. The skills were never addressed. Sure, it has some annoying aspects (Seriously, sniping through a freakin BOAT what even), but why is it that even as a full int spec cloth user I am able to close the gap fast enough and absolutely donger most archers? Hell most of the time I am even able to close the gap on trapwhre, who outgears me by a solid 3.5k points, and get several hits in. He usually kills me, but that's just the gear at that point. There should be an address to this.

I'm not saying they should be made into top powerhouses, but they definitely need a look and re balance. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves.
 
"My raid build that isn't meant for 1V1 isn't good in 1V1, please buff."

While we're at it, I'm having a hard time 1V1ing as a Skullknight, please give me 50% damage buff, even though that's not what the class is designed to do.

Archery is fine, it's your playstyle that needs work.
 
"My raid build that isn't meant for 1V1 isn't good in 1V1, please buff."

While we're at it, I'm having a hard time 1V1ing as a Skullknight, please give me 50% damage buff, even though that's not what the class is designed to do.

Archery is fine, it's your playstyle that needs work.

Your logic here is completely flawed.

Very very few classes are actually meant to be raid classes.

"Raid classes" are those builds that, by definition do one or more of the following:

Provide support to groups of players
Inhibit groups of players


Archery, as a stand alone class does very very little to actually perform these tasks. Most of the skills in archery are single target abilities, with exceedingly few actually being able to do damage to more than one target. Archers themselves have very high attacks per second output, but only to SINGLE targets. How, then, is this class meant to be a raid class?

Conversely, mages (sorcery, witchcraft, occultism and the new malediction trees) have a varied mix of abilities, many of them multiple target, and even a few of their single target abilities can impact groups of players. Mages (especially occultism and witchcraft) are the defacto classes to go to for their varied "raid" based builds (some of which are better than others at raiding) given that they effectively meet both of the above critera, albeit with many drawbacks, some of which are a little unfairly imposed, but that is another discussion entirely.

Healers are the best balance of both worlds, being able to support multiple people at once with buffs as well as heal multiple people at once with skills like mend, while being able to work in the supporting one player role. They even have abilities to inhibit enemy groups.


How can you reasonably argue that archers are a raid class? Especially given that many of their attacks do not support friendly players, nor do they inhibit groups of enemies. Their damage ceiling is quite low compared to the other classes and they have what is essentially the highest time to kill despite pumping out the most attacks. Your logic here makes absolutely no sense.
 
I just settled with the idea that as an archer my only really targets to kill are cloth dps and that every other target, my purpose is to just keep them busy.

Primeval is basically just porting around and kiting endlessly because you're very rarely given the opportunity to actually apply damage. If you are a main target to any of the enemy raids DR, you just can't really attack that person or anyone else because of the regular global cooldown duration we get on just about everything (not even taking the 100% distressed from lightning ts into consideration, that applies a heavy debuff to attack speed), if I was to teleport and then charged bolt, I'd be 2s vulnerable. That's a lifetime in pvp. So I usually just end up porting and porting and running, going stealth, abusing gliders and mounts til my raid realizes I'm being chased and supports me lol.

Ebonsong hits like a truck but it's super rng and unreliable af. Snipe gets evaded by half the raid, concussive hits like a noodle when your shit spear won't proc feral mark and when piercing shot gets evaded like snipe and won't apply bleed. Missile rain is trash if not in serpent sight and enemy raid faces you, cause again, everything gets blocked. (super busted when backstabbing in serp sight though). And well our only mobility is backdrop and gliders (which are useful) & mounts (which are trash cause in rvr they take forever to spawn). I just wish we'd get some shield pen rate tbh. Would do wonders honestly.
I'm hitting some tanks for 1-2K endless arrows but from 20 maybe 1 or 2 actually hit because the rest gets blocked.

Really happy I get to experience 4.5 here though. I think that will put archers in a different light, survivability-wise.
 
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