Personally, I think giving people this kind of gear is an insult to the people who have been playing on this server for a while. Let the new players and returning players grind gear and p2w if needed like the rest of us. To give them gear of this value is not okay. If you want to give them 30 day gear that cannot be regraded, then fine. I don't think the people here would have an issue with that. But this new setup is just wrong.
Support pack Mk.II
- Thread starter DrRageQuit
- Start date
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Personally, I think giving people this kind of gear is an insult to the people who have been playing on this server for a while. Let the new players and returning players grind gear and p2w if needed like the rest of us. To give them gear of this value is not okay. If you want to give them 30 day gear that cannot be regraded, then fine. I don't think the people here would have an issue with that. But this new setup is just wrong.
darkappleboi
New Member
I have been playing for a month and I'm enjoying the game and it's community, even donated some money just to see this server grow. I really hope we find a possible solution to this.
I'm currently at 3.4k GS but every new player in going to face in PvP can easily win me. This sounds like fun. XD
I'm currently at 3.4k GS but every new player in going to face in PvP can easily win me. This sounds like fun. XD
Lady_Zenith
New Member
At any rate, before I really start here Im gonna wait how this situation resolves. Im not gonna start to face the same fate few months from now.
Beerson
Member
@Sparkle It is really time to show some concern about this issue and give the players some reassurement that they will be compensated/support pack fixed, the situation is dire, there needs to be some statement at least before players start leaving, and they won't be back in a week to check if it was fixed ?
I come here on forums to bitch about things cause I don't wanna play on an empty server...
I come here on forums to bitch about things cause I don't wanna play on an empty server...
Bombermang
New Member
Not gonna lie. I am one of those people who opened support pack 2 weeks ago. Extremely discouraging to see that if I waited for update I could have a single item I have been trying to get for 2 weeks.
Illuminate
New Member
I suggest we petition for a change to be made.
Ive not seen a single person appreciate this overpowered pack, even the people that received it feel overwhelmed and frankly bored before theyve even started, they have almost nothing EXCEPT the gear so their progression feels fake..
Part of an MMORPG is the rewarding feeling of progress when you break a difficult barrier... these players dont get that satisfaction...
Anyway my point is, we should protest/ petition for a change. Before the best Archeage server empties.
Reply with suggestions,Ill try to gather some from the discord discussion.
Ive not seen a single person appreciate this overpowered pack, even the people that received it feel overwhelmed and frankly bored before theyve even started, they have almost nothing EXCEPT the gear so their progression feels fake..
Part of an MMORPG is the rewarding feeling of progress when you break a difficult barrier... these players dont get that satisfaction...
Anyway my point is, we should protest/ petition for a change. Before the best Archeage server empties.
Reply with suggestions,Ill try to gather some from the discord discussion.
Illuminate
New Member
What should be done about these Support Packs?
Vote Now! [Leave it they're fine] [Replace Divines with Celestials] [Give Older accounts divines, or something to bridge the gap]
www.strawpoll.me
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RogueChoi
Active Member
I guess I'm doing rather 'ok' with my progress after a year, because I'm in divine t4 with celest belt/sleeves. But, a straight up T5 divine set and belt/sleeves for buff would be a godsend though for me, my roommate (who is still in Celest t3/4 and weapons) and my friend who is in mixed t3/4 celestials too). Returning 60 day players also get shafted with temporary shit as well. That really needs to stop, period. A temporary gift is not a gift, especially mounts/pets/armor. Yikes. I want to see this server thrive again, but it's going to have to now remain competitive with the Unchained server with how its managed/handled. I am somewhat okay with the new players getting that pack, I just want to know that me as an older player isn't going to be left behind because I had shit regrade RNG, farming RNG, or trade runs gone wrong to even get close to divine T5 that the new players get. Also, since once again our 'appreciation' pack is a daily claim, there's no telling what stuff we'll end up with. Historically,t hey've been disappointed compared to a support pack. Nourish your players that have stuck with you? No more temporary junk or bank trash please 
This is a good learning opportunity.
Sparkle isn't a professional game dev, but even professional game dev companies make these kinds of mistakes, I've seen it before.
The solution is a simple one, and isn't that bad compared to possible other mistakes, so it's a good time to learn from this and use this experience not to repeat similar mistakes in the future.
The administration has three choices:
Radio Silence and ignore the situation, it will pass, it absolutely will because the players truly upset will quit.
The players slightly upset might not quit the game but might vow never to donate.
The players who don't care, well they don't care, not a surprise there.
That's not the right move.
The second choice is to "fix" the support pack, restore it back to the old pack.
The reason the devs changed it was because the old pack wasn't enough anymore. If you read deep into suggestions there is discussion how Celestial simply doesn't cut it anymore. Divine Delph gear was the suggested starting point to even get your foot in the door. I suspect THAT was the intent with boosting the support pack. And it was correct.
All mmos age. That's why AA live servers do fresh starts so many times. AA doesn't age well. ArcheRage isn't in a great shape now and this new support pack was one solution to help part of that problem and it's the right move. But it was executed poorly. But not so poorly it can't be changed for the better.
The only issue with the way it's currently implemented is certain players are excluded. That's wrong.
I'm actually one of the perfect examples of who it effects, I started in August, played super casually for a few weeks, then got serious in September. I donated alot. I play >8hrs a day. I invested 500 hours into the game according to me Archeage Addict achievement. Sparkle's suggeston was to delete my account and start over. My own clan said it was the correct choice when I asked them ingame yesterday. How wrong is that? If you think I've earned enough in those 500 hours gametime to reach Divine Delph, I'd like to direct you to my "Economy and Trade Packs" thread.
So the third solution is to just make the pack available for all accounts and a single set of Divine Delph is now the baseline standard.
That is the CORRECT solution.
In fact, it's what almost all major MMOs actually do.
Every year, MMOs release a new expansion or storyline quest that rewards new, returning, and even current players with updated baseline gear to adjust the gear gap.
ArcheRage simply chose to make it in the form of a support pack instead of a new zone with easy story line quests.
So see, the solution isn't that complicated, and the mistake isn't unredeemable. It's still a step in the correct direction.
But there still is some growing concern, @Sparkle, it might be wise to either take a course on public relations, or hire another staff member specifically for that. When you give the community the impression you don't care, and ignore them, or when the community believes making a forum account to discuss a topic such as the economy that might need changed is a pointless pursuit. It's not hard to see that's not a good route. Just look at the recent reaction you made to locking the fishing thread. Did you come around, yes, and I imagine many are thankful, it was the right decision, but the way it was overall handled was extremely poorly to anyone with even an high school education.
Sparkle isn't a professional game dev, but even professional game dev companies make these kinds of mistakes, I've seen it before.
The solution is a simple one, and isn't that bad compared to possible other mistakes, so it's a good time to learn from this and use this experience not to repeat similar mistakes in the future.
The administration has three choices:
Radio Silence and ignore the situation, it will pass, it absolutely will because the players truly upset will quit.
The players slightly upset might not quit the game but might vow never to donate.
The players who don't care, well they don't care, not a surprise there.
That's not the right move.
The second choice is to "fix" the support pack, restore it back to the old pack.
The reason the devs changed it was because the old pack wasn't enough anymore. If you read deep into suggestions there is discussion how Celestial simply doesn't cut it anymore. Divine Delph gear was the suggested starting point to even get your foot in the door. I suspect THAT was the intent with boosting the support pack. And it was correct.
All mmos age. That's why AA live servers do fresh starts so many times. AA doesn't age well. ArcheRage isn't in a great shape now and this new support pack was one solution to help part of that problem and it's the right move. But it was executed poorly. But not so poorly it can't be changed for the better.
The only issue with the way it's currently implemented is certain players are excluded. That's wrong.
I'm actually one of the perfect examples of who it effects, I started in August, played super casually for a few weeks, then got serious in September. I donated alot. I play >8hrs a day. I invested 500 hours into the game according to me Archeage Addict achievement. Sparkle's suggeston was to delete my account and start over. My own clan said it was the correct choice when I asked them ingame yesterday. How wrong is that? If you think I've earned enough in those 500 hours gametime to reach Divine Delph, I'd like to direct you to my "Economy and Trade Packs" thread.
So the third solution is to just make the pack available for all accounts and a single set of Divine Delph is now the baseline standard.
That is the CORRECT solution.
In fact, it's what almost all major MMOs actually do.
Every year, MMOs release a new expansion or storyline quest that rewards new, returning, and even current players with updated baseline gear to adjust the gear gap.
ArcheRage simply chose to make it in the form of a support pack instead of a new zone with easy story line quests.
So see, the solution isn't that complicated, and the mistake isn't unredeemable. It's still a step in the correct direction.
But there still is some growing concern, @Sparkle, it might be wise to either take a course on public relations, or hire another staff member specifically for that. When you give the community the impression you don't care, and ignore them, or when the community believes making a forum account to discuss a topic such as the economy that might need changed is a pointless pursuit. It's not hard to see that's not a good route. Just look at the recent reaction you made to locking the fishing thread. Did you come around, yes, and I imagine many are thankful, it was the right decision, but the way it was overall handled was extremely poorly to anyone with even an high school education.
Gendgi
Member
The problem is the people that won't voice their opinion, and will just leave... like someone already said, gear progression is part of the fun in the game (to actually farm it), I might complain I get one shot and whatnot, but at least its from players that have been here for 2 years so they had the time to farm it, if I am getting vastly surpassed by new players coming to the server, then I feel a bit cheated... and like me players that have been grinding for a few months just to get some decent gear to stand against pk's, defend some packs, etc ...
Give a fair chance to all, unless you prefer to attract new players with this "bait" and loose your "old" and fairly new (few months in) players, anyways the subject has been brought up so, its in your hands.
Give a fair chance to all, unless you prefer to attract new players with this "bait" and loose your "old" and fairly new (few months in) players, anyways the subject has been brought up so, its in your hands.
Beerson
Member
ok few points there, as far as I've been told, and correct me on this @Sparkle, sparkle is/was proffesional in game developmen
It is just very not true that we need divine delph equivalent as support pack for new players, FAR from it and if you read some of the posts, some of mine, some even posted by those new player, posted here, you will see why, divine T5 is little worse issue then divine delph but still getting such high gear that instantly makes you able to compete doesn't help any mmo player, this ain't an FPS/arena game where that mentality would work
also you are completely missing the point, the gear given out is not delph that loses grade on upgrade, it's obsidian that keeps the grade and very cheap to upgrade to T6 compared to divine > ayanad, so a class using single obsidian weapon from the pack can just redeem 3 2h and regrade 2 to see if they get lege/epic for free, get epherium or (for the time being) dungeon bow and craft low tier instrument,
the issue gets even more dire when you look at archers and see that the standard amongst high gear archers rn is lege obsidian bow, so u redeem 3 bows, redeem loyalty and farm purses for 3h to get money for luckies, there u got 3 free tries on lege bow, don't get one? no problem, you can just delete account and try again
this is effectively giving free epic-lege weapon to anyone who tries, for way less effort current players got their divines, this needs to be changed
Zecen
Active Member
I voiced my opinion in game and basically was told I was being selfish for not wanting new players to basically have end game gear because tbh a full gemed t5 set sets u for a long time. So I am glad that I am not the only one who feels that this new starter pack was too op. Like the rest of us they should have to work to get their gear. Maybe not be butt naked when starting the game but divine t5 is too much.
DrRageQuit
Well-Known Member
I agree that a set that can't be upgraded would be better than what is being offered. Give people a good starting point but not a platform that they can yolo and make quick cash from.
As a long time AA player, like many here, but rather non gear focused mentality, feel free to take the following with a grain of salt.
Reading the concern so far, we can sum them up by: "exploitability" & "unfairness";
About the later, if anything, AA rng based gear system was anything but fair by design and drawing a clear line on what's acceptable and what's laughable isn't as straightforward as some here may imply. The previous pack was not enough, this one is a bit much, fair enough, there is room for correction.
About the exploitability, it was obviously not intended but also naive to think that nobody would see it, and I can agree that a bit more thought process could have been invested into that.
As solutions to both of these, and already proposed in here:
# switch them from obsidian to delphinad and from divine to celestial
-> offer path to futur improvement to ayanad, while removing the yolo exploitable nature of obsidian and it's grade carrying property. The grade adjustment is debatable but I see it mainly as a 1st step for new players in the unfair world of AA rng.
Also, on a side note, it might be wise to adjust the eligibility to not only new player but also fresh ones (like -6month) or any time you see it as reachable for that kind a progression!
My2potatos!
Reading the concern so far, we can sum them up by: "exploitability" & "unfairness";
About the later, if anything, AA rng based gear system was anything but fair by design and drawing a clear line on what's acceptable and what's laughable isn't as straightforward as some here may imply. The previous pack was not enough, this one is a bit much, fair enough, there is room for correction.
About the exploitability, it was obviously not intended but also naive to think that nobody would see it, and I can agree that a bit more thought process could have been invested into that.
As solutions to both of these, and already proposed in here:
# switch them from obsidian to delphinad and from divine to celestial
-> offer path to futur improvement to ayanad, while removing the yolo exploitable nature of obsidian and it's grade carrying property. The grade adjustment is debatable but I see it mainly as a 1st step for new players in the unfair world of AA rng.
Also, on a side note, it might be wise to adjust the eligibility to not only new player but also fresh ones (like -6month) or any time you see it as reachable for that kind a progression!
My2potatos!
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Eduardo Nakao
New Member
Exactly!!!
Lady_Zenith
New Member
Hmm, how about making the whole gear score thing matter less?
The reason why everyone is screaming is cause it matters too much. But why does it matter too much? Cause XL originally made it so that people would swipe with their credit cards to keep up when RNG failed them. If there is a guy with 3K gear vs guy with 6K its no competition, he will get oneshotted. So, how about not? How about making this exact doubling in score translate to say around 20% more damage?
People would be way less annoyed by being outgeared by new support pack cause whatever its sub 5% difference if I have 3,5 or 4.5K, and the people that continue to grind nolife and swipe would still do it anyway, because they are chasing any edge, just this time the edge would be noticeable, not completely bonkers.
The reason why everyone is screaming is cause it matters too much. But why does it matter too much? Cause XL originally made it so that people would swipe with their credit cards to keep up when RNG failed them. If there is a guy with 3K gear vs guy with 6K its no competition, he will get oneshotted. So, how about not? How about making this exact doubling in score translate to say around 20% more damage?
People would be way less annoyed by being outgeared by new support pack cause whatever its sub 5% difference if I have 3,5 or 4.5K, and the people that continue to grind nolife and swipe would still do it anyway, because they are chasing any edge, just this time the edge would be noticeable, not completely bonkers.
DrRageQuit
Well-Known Member
Trouble is a rebalance like that would be an enormous undertaking. every single mob and boss etc would have to be re balanced, tested, readjusted etc to bring them back down.
Aviendha
Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter when they add the new pack, there will always be someone in this situation you describe.
Aviendha
Well-Known Member
Very true, they worked on it in ESO and it took them a year if not years to get it done.
SodaBubblies
Member
Free bump, admins still silent. 
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