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The economy and trade pack runs

Whisper

New Member
Drunken made an excellent post in the player nation thread, I thought this needed said too.
The current trade pack system needs a boost.

A single person can crash the market for hours in only a little bit of time. On live, labor wall might have stopped that, here with high labor rates, you never run out of labor just running packs so you can completely crash the market, then nobody else can run packs. The past few days I've logged in only to see markets crashed the whole day. They don't recharge, and when they do, often they go even lower because recharge currently accommodates one run per hour. If two people wanted to run then the second person to get there just crashes it further, and it snowballs.

The trade value % recharge is still normal rate at 5% per hour. This needs boosted to x2, x4, or even x6.
Otherwise it's just like the 1% controlling the market, those few people get to pack run, and nobody else can.

Now you could stop there, x6 recharge would allow multiple people to run and slightly boost available gold in the market.
But you could also x2, x3, or x4 the labor, material, gold value of packs. The point being 1 person turns in 9 packs and it depletes 3510 labor for 405 gold instead of 1170 labor for 135 gold, but it only subtracts -5% from the trade market. Now this person might run out of labor/materials before completely crashing everything. So the chokepoint isn't time as it is currently but labor itself which is what it should have always been.

Additional recharge would really help multiple people run packs.
Additional cost (labor and materials) for multiplied value means less runs per person.

One more thing needs changed though. The current values for distance. Someone else will have to chime in on East, but for West Cradle and Rock are dead. They're as long as Hellswamp run but about equal in value to a White Arden run. A big reason the markets are constantly crashed is there are so few actual viable trade runs. Many just exist to exist. These need an upgrade.
I'll just go by fert prices, but specialties and even larders should be looked at.

Hellswamp is 21g
Halcy is 19g
Arden is 17g
Cradle is 17g
Rock is 17g
Gwen is 16g
Dew is 16g

Idk Lily or Mara because they're low, like 14g. MORE ON THIS LATER!

To rework the baseline of these before boosted multipliers I'd change them to:
Hellswamp 30g
Halcy 20g
Arden 17g < Same
Cradle 19g
Rock 23g
Gwen 16g < Same
Dew 16g < Same

Allow me to explain my random numbers.
Gwen, Dew, Arden are fine, that's why they're always crashed right now.
Cradle and Rock are boosted from 17g to equal extra trip time/distance as they should be.
Halcy and Hellswamp are boosted because they're war zone runs, time limited usually to peace, Hellswamp requires double peace and is an extremely long trip. In regards to Ahrimar and Sanddeep and others I might have missed I don't have numbers but Ahrimar should probably be 30g as well because the distance to match value Hellswamp only because they're right adjacent to each other unlike Cradle and Rock.

Lastly to boost Lily and Mara, they have very little in-region value, they might be good for sea runs, but they're dead otherwise. So boost them by perhaps adding a rare material to the recipe and making the trip give as much money as Rock or Hell, but quicker for the premium traders / high skill. Commerce has a cap. You can earn 150g at Novice with a freighter, or 150g at Famed with a freighter. It's the freighter that controls your trip time. UTILIZE Lily and Mara trade routes! The famed Commerce trader? Instead of using Cradle for 19g they can use Lily or Mara for a shorter trip time, but in order to do so the player needs 230k Commerce to craft the packs, and perhaps a trade license or something rare, while not crippling the value of the pack run OR CRIPPLING THE VALUE OF OTHER LOCATIONS!! While Lily and Mara could be premium land for fast runs, Arden Cradle and Rock should still be good fallback or there for additional runs. Don't make them obsolete like Hellswamp vs Ahrimar.

So that's some suggestions and feedback how to help the economy and boost trade runs.
I'd like to read your ideas as well, because currently something needs to change.
 
Afaik they already changed the refresh rate for % at the outlets, due to packs stacking up for the cargo creation system. No clue about the regular traders.
 
Pack recharge was changed to 2.5% per hour. Later on put back to the normal 5% per hour
 
You are completely wrong that one player can crash the market as trade packs have more than 100 routes, so if 1 is too popular and price got lowered there, then choose another one that has a better % and higher reward.
I've never seen all the routes to have low % at the same time. % can drop for some time only on the most popular packs, not all of them.
 
No one complained about the economy before 3.5, when most of us made braziers and crystals in auroria and it was profitable, even using the lord coin instead of going to Marcala to collect fire trunks (etc.) The problem is that so much that as the luckys began to be ridiculously in all the boxes.

That situation has resulted in people generating less gold, (and it is more difficult to generate that gold with respect to labor / time / profitability) and people who liked to play, even having few hours a week to do so, have abandoned the game, by see that in their reduced hours of play they did not generate enough money to advance. I'm sure we all know cases of friends or colleagues like that.

Not to mention that fishing remains incredibly ridiculous. Doesn't give gold profitably since ... 3.0? More than a year, much more. Personally, I hated fishing and got bored (I had more emotion stealing them xD), but there are people who loved to do that (that golden age when they were partying or fishing raids ...)

This game in its origins was attractive (not counting PvP / PvE / etc) because there were different forms of economy that adapted to any type of player; Move packs in your continent, move intercontinental packs, fishing afk, fishing, steal, play with the AH, auroria LC, auroria with braziers / crystals, purses, crafting, farms ... and surely I forget some. In conclusion, MANY PROFITABLE OPTIONS.
If all this is reactivated again, as well as the purses are reactive, I am sure that the server will be attractive to many again.
 
Not to mention that fishing remains incredibly ridiculous. Doesn't give gold profitably since ... 3.0? More than a year, much more. Personally, I hated fishing and got bored (I had more emotion stealing them xD), but there are people who loved to do that (that golden age when they were partying or fishing raids ...)
You must have missed the custom update that we had some time during 3.5 related to sport fishing. It was increased a lot in comparison to the previous game versions.
 
If this fishing improvement is currently active, it is still not enough ... it is not profitable xD

well imo fishing is mostly profitable if you have high prof. I mean, back on live if you got a puffer for 9g and spent 70 or 80 labor to catch it, thats more than 10 silver per labor, which was definitely a good ratio. Max prof would be 60 labor for a fish.. even better.

Add to that the fact that they already buffed fishing... What more do you want? o.o
 
The best way to see if this mode is profitable or not is to see if people do it .... and the answer is no.
Except for a handful of people who do family fishing missions and fishing events ... at the most some new people on the server trying to see how they are ... But you really don't see real sport fishing movement. Beyond this I can't say more xD

I've been moving merchants for a year and I can count on both hands the times I saw fishing boats. And I always heard people from both my clan and outside complaining about how unprofitable this is, both before that improvement you talked about and after it.
 
The best way to see if this mode is profitable or not is to see if people do it .... and the answer is no.
Except for a handful of people who do family fishing missions and fishing events ... at the most some new people on the server trying to see how they are ... But you really don't see real sport fishing movement. Beyond this I can't say more xD

I've been moving merchants for a year and I can count on both hands the times I saw fishing boats. And I always heard people from both my clan and outside complaining about how unprofitable this is, both before that improvement you talked about and after it.

I wonder if its truly as unprofitable as they say then.. I fished a LOT on live and it was great tbh, they didn't have the changes we got here. I just never bothered making ships on this server, aside from my clipper, until recently x'D

Actually the most annoying thing, in my experience, about fishing was, finding a spot to fish. Not the gold... Just the awful spawn time of the spots :')
 
Kinda why I pay taxes on some places and keep them public, to give options for those who want to make some gold. Across the board a huge buff to trade would be nice, but overall players wanting to help people is present with a lot of zones having open to all houses to use. I have never seen more than 2-3 areas or each faction under 100% at the same time, but that may be the time of day I play. Huge ways to make gold in trade, just do some research, the con of ferts is the mats are slightly higher now and labor slightly higher but the pro is you can use those mats anywhere there is a house open. Also those destinations have multiple places to turn in, so point kinda moot on that too.

In this game world I know of Public houses in all the major trade zones, go shop around or hit me up in game for a port to them. I have personally places like Two Crowns North Beach, Karkasse, Hellswamp, Lilyut and Gwen border. But there are ones in Dewstone, Yny and many others spread out. If it is not good for gold, it is good for charcoal or gilda or dragon essence. Also sometimes time involved is awesome. Quantity can beat quality for a 3 min merch run. :p
 
But for real guys and gals... you can actually make some hella gold with little to no effort playing inside the rules here, just use the mighty pen and paper and set yourself a solid 30 day plan.
 
I'm surprised at your stance on this @Drunkenhero . From your post I thought you were saying how difficult it is for new players or casuals to catch up and participate.
It's sad I'm the only one here so far that supports higher regeneration rates. What is to lose from higher regeneration rates? More people being able to do pack runs?
Little bit more gold in the economy?

Last week I tried to do a Halcy run, the rates were 72%, so I thought
"Hey, I'll just stage some packs here in 2c and turn them in when the rates go up during Halcy war."
Those packs sit there for a week almost expired, the halcy market is perpetually crashed because low regeneration rates.

Look at Gwen, White Arden, Dew, or others right now, they're crashed, Gwen itself stays crashed because of Drunken's public fert house. It'd sure be nice if others could use it too, but in order to do so we'd have to turn in at the lowest rate instead of a good one, simply because, this is a high rates server, with low rate trade regen.

I don't understand why boosting the regen would be bad. This is like Medicare for All, Trade Runs for All. The only people who wouldn't want that would be the ones currently controlling it, and enjoying their niche.

I also don't understand why everyone simply accepts the fact White Arden, Cradle, and Rock are all 17g pack runs, even though Cradle and Rock are a much larger time investment. Is there a reason Cradle isn't 19g? Is there a reason Rock isn't 22g? Would you run Kark if it was 17g too?
 
I fish and make average 150 gold per boatload, although I don't do it for the money as I love the fishing in this game and happily give my fish to any passing pirates or purples just to save my boat from destruction ( saves me time to get back to fishing and those pirates or purples getting fish off me faster). I don't think fishing is as bad as y'all say
 
ArcheAge is all about trade packs. Nerf tradepacks incoming and no one can make any profit from either commerce, farming, gathering or husbandry, a single move to kill almost every "pve" players.
If someone asks me, I would say that packs prices are low. The risky areas should be even higher prices due to your gambling on "You can earn 200g or waste 50g a trip. Good luck!", also, packs take real large amounts of time to complete, by far in this server they are not the "best profit" profession.
 
ArcheAge is all about trade packs.

I would disagree with you there, for me AA isn't all about packs. I can see where you're coming from though, it is true that the increased prices of seeds such as rice, azalea, thistle, etc. has been a not so good thing for many proficiencies.
 
I'm surprised at your stance on this @Drunkenhero . From your post I thought you were saying how difficult it is for new players or casuals to catch up and participate.
It's sad I'm the only one here so far that supports higher regeneration rates. What is to lose from higher regeneration rates? More people being able to do pack runs?
Little bit more gold in the economy?

Last week I tried to do a Halcy run, the rates were 72%, so I thought
"Hey, I'll just stage some packs here in 2c and turn them in when the rates go up during Halcy war."
Those packs sit there for a week almost expired, the halcy market is perpetually crashed because low regeneration rates.

Look at Gwen, White Arden, Dew, or others right now, they're crashed, Gwen itself stays crashed because of Drunken's public fert house. It'd sure be nice if others could use it too, but in order to do so we'd have to turn in at the lowest rate instead of a good one, simply because, this is a high rates server, with low rate trade regen.

I don't understand why boosting the regen would be bad. This is like Medicare for All, Trade Runs for All. The only people who wouldn't want that would be the ones currently controlling it, and enjoying their niche.

I also don't understand why everyone simply accepts the fact White Arden, Cradle, and Rock are all 17g pack runs, even though Cradle and Rock are a much larger time investment. Is there a reason Cradle isn't 19g? Is there a reason Rock isn't 22g? Would you run Kark if it was 17g too?
I never said I was against a boost to trade. Also simply removing the decay from 130% is a good option. Just mentioning there are current options you can also do is all.
 
I also don't understand why everyone simply accepts the fact White Arden, Cradle, and Rock are all 17g pack runs, even though Cradle and Rock are a much larger time investment. Is there a reason Cradle isn't 19g? Is there a reason Rock isn't 22g? Would you run Kark if it was 17g too?

Just saw this part.. this confuses me too. Did you know larders from sanddeep, halcy, gweonid are all roughly same price to the two crowns trader (edit: trade post)? Why bother making gweonid larders if you might as well run a 5min tr from halcy if you have land in the prison camp area....
 
Drunken made an excellent post in the player nation thread, I thought this needed said too.
The current trade pack system needs a boost.

A single person can crash the market for hours in only a little bit of time. On live, labor wall might have stopped that, here with high labor rates, you never run out of labor just running packs so you can completely crash the market, then nobody else can run packs. The past few days I've logged in only to see markets crashed the whole day. They don't recharge, and when they do, often they go even lower because recharge currently accommodates one run per hour. If two people wanted to run then the second person to get there just crashes it further, and it snowballs.

The trade value % recharge is still normal rate at 5% per hour. This needs boosted to x2, x4, or even x6.
Otherwise it's just like the 1% controlling the market, those few people get to pack run, and nobody else can.

Now you could stop there, x6 recharge would allow multiple people to run and slightly boost available gold in the market.
But you could also x2, x3, or x4 the labor, material, gold value of packs. The point being 1 person turns in 9 packs and it depletes 3510 labor for 405 gold instead of 1170 labor for 135 gold, but it only subtracts -5% from the trade market. Now this person might run out of labor/materials before completely crashing everything. So the chokepoint isn't time as it is currently but labor itself which is what it should have always been.

Additional recharge would really help multiple people run packs.
Additional cost (labor and materials) for multiplied value means less runs per person.

One more thing needs changed though. The current values for distance. Someone else will have to chime in on East, but for West Cradle and Rock are dead. They're as long as Hellswamp run but about equal in value to a White Arden run. A big reason the markets are constantly crashed is there are so few actual viable trade runs. Many just exist to exist. These need an upgrade.
I'll just go by fert prices, but specialties and even larders should be looked at.

Hellswamp is 21g
Halcy is 19g
Arden is 17g
Cradle is 17g
Rock is 17g
Gwen is 16g
Dew is 16g

Idk Lily or Mara because they're low, like 14g. MORE ON THIS LATER!

To rework the baseline of these before boosted multipliers I'd change them to:
Hellswamp 30g
Halcy 20g
Arden 17g < Same
Cradle 19g
Rock 23g
Gwen 16g < Same
Dew 16g < Same

Allow me to explain my random numbers.
Gwen, Dew, Arden are fine, that's why they're always crashed right now.
Cradle and Rock are boosted from 17g to equal extra trip time/distance as they should be.
Halcy and Hellswamp are boosted because they're war zone runs, time limited usually to peace, Hellswamp requires double peace and is an extremely long trip. In regards to Ahrimar and Sanddeep and others I might have missed I don't have numbers but Ahrimar should probably be 30g as well because the distance to match value Hellswamp only because they're right adjacent to each other unlike Cradle and Rock.

Lastly to boost Lily and Mara, they have very little in-region value, they might be good for sea runs, but they're dead otherwise. So boost them by perhaps adding a rare material to the recipe and making the trip give as much money as Rock or Hell, but quicker for the premium traders / high skill. Commerce has a cap. You can earn 150g at Novice with a freighter, or 150g at Famed with a freighter. It's the freighter that controls your trip time. UTILIZE Lily and Mara trade routes! The famed Commerce trader? Instead of using Cradle for 19g they can use Lily or Mara for a shorter trip time, but in order to do so the player needs 230k Commerce to craft the packs, and perhaps a trade license or something rare, while not crippling the value of the pack run OR CRIPPLING THE VALUE OF OTHER LOCATIONS!! While Lily and Mara could be premium land for fast runs, Arden Cradle and Rock should still be good fallback or there for additional runs. Don't make them obsolete like Hellswamp vs Ahrimar.

So that's some suggestions and feedback how to help the economy and boost trade runs.
I'd like to read your ideas as well, because currently something needs to change.


Ok PPL Lets talk about economy. ( and its not rly about server economy its more guide for u guys cuz i see u need one sorry)

What u Talking about is just straight bad. Sparkle is very much Correct on what she say but she not telling u entire Truth.

IN LAND PACKS FOR GOLD
U only do them if u are low lvl low Gear Score player that starting on server and u just made ur frighter its a good way to get gold for merchant design, whenu got merchant u never ever touch in land trading for gold cuz u simply waste gold/time

CHARCOAL TRADERUNS
U spend like 2 weeks up to 1 month u have ur merchant u starting making gold. u can make 2k gold on charcoal runs daily even without advanced packs production system if u decide that u rly like it go ahead invest in rokhala land r karkase and get that fat larders packs. Remember tho with better packs risk is growing and u most liekly are using known routs so be aweare that u lose some but its always profitable. Cons of making this is that u are dependent on market an dserver population so be aweare that charcoal price go up and down. But That not the end of life.

Crafting
This game is not about hauling forever packs(for me) but some ppl play it this way so when u get bored of making same charcoal runs over and over tired of getting killed in rookborne ?. U may start crafting and it would be natural progres in game like evolution of ur way how to play. U make more gold u want invest u want some gear for pvp and this is how u do it. Simple trick is that when u craft u also regrade and from celestial item u have pretty hight chance to hit epic and get nice profit. This is very dependent on poulaton and economy state of server.

AURORIA- Should be Natural and next step in progresiont thru game BUT SOMEONE PUT ARCHEUM AND REGRADE SCROLLS IN BOXES AND THEY NEVER SUPOSE TO BE THERE ! ( My Opinion and experience in archeage economy i will be happy to discuss )

So If u stuck on making gold packs u play game wrong u will never be able to properly gear up cuz they give to little gold and they are dsigned this way cuz they are for fresh players that just started game

If u are on point 2 and u hauling charcoal packs but u dont touch crafting that is up to u charco traderuns give enought gold for u to progres but u will be missing on nice profit in time of well populated server when market is hungry for items.

If u craft now is the worst time best times are over but u can still make nice profit if u know what u are doing and if u prepeared for this patch properly.

WE have also other ways of making gold like coinpurses and thats what i am doing curently by farming 2k purses daily i am getting 4k gold more less but labor spend is insane so better get good bed pijama sleep reset and 2 p2w buffs for labot pots.

Auroria is totaly useless cuz of boxes u can right now go to auroria and see that ppl plant azalea on farms cuz is so much not worth spending labor on braziers.

Affter all of this u got also world bosses and castles PVP contesting and trully endgame in archeage and if u progres properly u get there.

Fishing is ok btw but i wouldnt do it cuz of time spend it simply dosent calculate u have to spend way to much time than it is worth.
 
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Sorry for double post but that deserve i think separate topic and i know post about fishing were so many but that is i think solution to a fishing problem. Admins state that we got good gold on fishing but players complain it is not profitable and both sides are correct.

Problem is about Time spend on fishing to get that profit. U have to find fishing school then fish and that process is pretty lond then deliver and find again another fishing school. This take a lot of time what keep ppl away from fishing.

So i got proposition and i think its pretty good. Increase gold vaule of fishes for example x4 and labor to sport fish x4. This provide no changes of how much gold is made per labor but shorten time that ppl spend on fishing and make it feel a lot more rewarding.
 
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