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the guild experience system

TripleDip

TripleDip

Member
Ok so as most of you know the experia bug got fixed from the last small patch they did to the server, but this has brought to light a huge issue I personally see going forward for ArcheRage. The issue with the exp system is that it was made in the mind of guilds having 100 players(older game versions more populated), Which justifies the high guild exp cost, but here there aren't any big guilds, it's just small ones and the player base doesn't even support the massive exp grind it takes to level a guild. Not to mention guilds with smaller sizes have virtually no possible way to level at all with the enormous amount of exp it takes. Not to mention access to guild buffs. My guild has 10 or so active people. If we enable guild buffs even doing our dailies wouldn't be enough to counteract the exp needed to level. It would be draining our exp, but I had time to sit down and think about it. And ragequit made some very valid points too. The exp for leveling a guild is extremely outdated and only supports larger guilds, but there are also small guilds who want to max level their guild and get those guild buffs, but now since exp is only really gainable in a meager amount through just dailies. It isn't enough.

The things I would be looking at are lowering the exp needed to level a guild in a timely manner and looking at how much the guild buffs cost, Or increasing how much exp is given from the guild daily quests. I know why you guys patched the experia bug, but I even snooped around live and unchained servers. the bug still exists there and was never removed, But I understand you guys dont want people abusing bugs, but unfortunately that "bug" was still an expensive one for people to do and was the only way for smaller guilds to get access to what other pre established guilds already have. Any of the "larger" guilds on server who pre date this fix are already at level 8 and have really zero to no reason to do said experia farming as they already have a massive exp pool stocked up because the guild has been at level 8 for months to years at this point, but all this change did was bring to light the issue.

The guild exp system is massively and severely outdated. and could use some major tuning. it never got it on live or unchained as the player base could always support it, or as said over time already hit level 8 but spamming experia with their guild, but this option still required heavy gold sinking to even work. It was a barrier for a much bigger issue that kept it at bay. So please I would recommend looking into this as a major issue, maybe even try to implement it with the 5.0 custom patch. This server is great, but all that happened now is completely not just hindering other guilds, but completely severing any reason or how to be able to gain access to guild buffs, guild bank, or the upgraded store just because the exp needed to level cannot be achieved by most guilds on the server due to most guilds sizes. This server has no where near the population of a unchained or live server. Please review this system and give your opinions on the subject. It's in dire need of an overhaul and my opinion on the matter sits clear as its not fair to other guilds to not have access to these buffs even when we have done the quests to gain access to them quest wise and investing so much time into our guilds to get them to the max level.

(AGAIN THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE BUG. THIS IS ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE SYSTEM. ANY MENTIONS OF THE BUG ARE FOR EXPLANATION PURPOSES AND NOTHING ELSE)
 
I already spoke a bit with Sparkle about this, and atm they have to focus on 5.0 - otherwise it would be pushed back further and don't think we want that ? I'm sad I can't say to my guild anymore "get your ass over here and harvest these experia" ... Now entirely dependent on people to not forget themselves. I know how forgetful I can be, yikes :')

Things I suggested before:
- custom event on somewhat regular basis for extra guild experience
- decreasing the craft cost of experia

Finetuning the amount of experience needed is definitely worth considering too, as yea, the population of our server can't be compared to live. Also, the amount of small level 1 guilds that keep popping, they are having a hard time, I'm sure. At least I got this guild at lv5, saved some trouble.

I also miss the old guild mission daily that was guild leader exclusive, back when we still needed guild ribbons to upgrade the guild. Once you completed the mission for the ribbon, as a guild leader you'd get an extra world boss mission for 200 guild exp. Is it possible to have this mission back, without the ribbons? That would be helpful too.

~

Edit:
So basically levelling a guild is too hard now with the demand a lot more experience on a weekly basis for the custom guild content, while not increasing the availability of experience. Large, well-established guilds have it much easier, because either they are already level 8 and just need exp for the content, or they are level 7 and almost there anyway.
 
I think I have seen some administration responses along the lines of "there were always only 30-50 active members in guilds anyways back in the day, so it shouldn't matter that the guild caps were reduced to 50 because the # of actives can still fit in the guild". This would be nice if it were true, but from what I've found most of the larger guilds are on the lower end of this figure if even within the range of 30-50 actives, there are plenty of high level guilds that have had their active pops dwindle to only 10-15 players like you said.

While the buffs were a nice touch and bonus for the larger guilds, the idea of them eating XP is pretty disheartening and overall just a bad design, personally I would change it to something along the line of: if you got _____ amount of xp last week, you have the guild buff this week (adjusted for guild level). Similar to the castle system. This way it incentivizes gaining guild xp, but does not take away from a guild's progress through the levels and actually allows for guilds to level up AND have their buff, not just join one of the handful of guilds that were levelled from experias and/or have existed since 2017.

While we are talking about it too, these guild buffs IMO are honestly a bit too strong. I guess I see what the devs are trying to do here, but there are already plenty of perks for being in a high level guild, they could easily stand to reduce these bonus buffs by 80% IMO, 5% to all reductions and so much more? lol. basically a second stat underwear at divine or epic with all the tank stats.
 
Thinking said:
While the buffs were a nice touch and bonus for the larger guilds, the idea of them eating XP is pretty disheartening and overall just a bad design, personally I would change it to something along the line of: if you got _____ amount of xp last week, you have the guild buff this week (adjusted for guild level). Similar to the castle system. This way it incentivizes gaining guild xp, but does not take away from a guild's progress through the levels and actually allows for guilds to level up AND have their buff, not just join one of the handful of guilds that were levelled from experias and/or have existed since 2017.
Click to expand...

That is a good idea, actually. We already have the same system for staying in the guild rankings, which makes it easier for new people to find active guilds there.

My addition to this suggestion would be to make it an extra exp requirement on top of the rankings one.

Example, my guild is level 6 and we need 3000 exp weekly to stay in the rankings. I'd say, the required exp for the buffs could go in stages on top of that.

Level 6 guild options:
- 3k exp for rankings
- 4k exp for rankings, upgraded store
- 5k exp for rankings, upgraded store, upgraded buff
- 6k exp for rankings, upgraded store, upgraded buff, quests
- 7k exp for rankings, upgraded store, upgraded buff, quests, bank
(updated to include new content)
 
Last edited:
Aviendha said:
That is a good idea, actually. We already have the same system for staying in the guild rankings, which makes it easier for new people to find active guilds there.

My addition to this suggestion would be to make it an extra exp requirement on top of the rankings one.

Example, my guild is level 6 and we need 3000 exp weekly to stay in the rankings. I'd say, the required exp for the buffs could go in stages on top of that.

Level 6 guild options:
- 3k exp for rankings
- 4k exp for rankings, upgraded guild store
- 5k exp for rankings, upgraded store, upgraded buff
- 6k exp for rankings, upgraded store, upgraded buff, guild bank
Click to expand...

I like this idea, and while i agree with Thinkings concept for guild buff eligibility i strongly disagree with nerfing the buffs themselves. The only reason they're worth actually working this hard to get is because they're so nice to have.
(apologies if this is a bit word-soupy, killer migraine but this issue needs to be addressed)

Adorable generated 11110exp last week, with the majority of members (approx 40/50) earning at least some quantity of prestige/exp daily. Members are encouraged to complete missions but i'll not force people to break their backs for it.
We maintain level 8 buff and level 4 bank, which costs 10,000exp combined per week. I open the level 8 guild shop one week in every month, for an extra 4,000exp cost so the guild literally just about breaks even if we maintain the current exp generation. I still feel forced to remove inactive members quicker than i'd like to ensure the exp keeps coming in.

-

Now lets pretend Adorable was level 7 and wanted to level up to 8 while maintaining a rank 7 buff and rank 4 bank. Thats 9,000exp required per week for the two features, leaving approximately 2,000exp for guild progression. The exp requirement to progress from level 7-8 is 660k. Levelling a guild like this is simply not viable. 660,000/2,000 is 330 weeks. Thats six years. Opening the guild store for a week is also out of the question as it will blow through the entire months exp again.

So as the leader of a level 7 Adorable i have a few options.

1) stop applying guild buff, risk losing the more dedicated pvp members that might feel they need the buff to remain competitive against other guilds that have it. - Guild levels up in ~60 weeks, still just over a year, potential loss of core members.

2) Push hard on members to complete all guild quests at any cost, harvest multiple experia per day each and remove members who dont 'pull their weight'. Aim for 20k exp/week. - Guild levels up in just over a year, maintains buffs, gross community environment from literally forcing people to play to your rules or risk eviction.

3) Just give up on the idea of hitting level 8, run the level 7 buff and accept that progression simply isnt going to happen with the current system. - Forever feel cheated at the fact that existing level 8 guilds had a significantly easier time hitting level 8 with 100 player caps and experia 'bug'.

In the end i do appreciate the buffs and features the developers clearly worked hard on. But they were balanced for a time when guilds (and the population as a whole) were larger, and now it just doesn't work.

I dont know the perfect solution to the buffs and features (Though Thinking/Avie's concept looks good), but the exp requirement to levelling guilds should have been halved when the player cap was reduced. Its something people were unhappy about at the time, and nothing has changed.
 
and thats exactly the issue. my guild is level 6 with 110k exp, and it takes 480k to make level 7. add that on and its well over a million exp to max level which will take well over a year. the state of the system and server are the same. it needs to be changed or else no one will be making anything new in terms of progress.
 
DrRageQuit said:
I still feel forced to remove inactive members quicker than i'd like to ensure the exp keeps coming in.
Click to expand...

It would basically be a continuous coming and going of people while the "core" stays the same.. And tbh, I don't want that myself, at all, if I recruit someone the aim is for them to stay, I don't invite people left and right in the hopes that something might stick.

I rather have people who are active and do something, with whom I can create a safe environment. I want to build up something. I don't want to force anyone to do anything either, the focus is to have fun. Seeing as irl can be a bitch sometimes, I don't expect everyone to always be at their best activity level.


And I agree with this ?

DrRageQuit said:
I like this idea, and while i agree with Thinkings concept for guild buff eligibility i strongly disagree with nerfing the buffs themselves. The only reason they're worth actually working this hard to get is because they're so nice to have.
(apologies if this is a bit word-soupy, killer migraine but this issue needs to be addressed)
Click to expand...
 
As a level 8 guild with many active members we still run into the issue of running Guild bank lvl 2, Guild buff lvl 8 and shop at any lvl. We have only been getting the shop once a month in order to stay ahead of the experience level. So I can see where the other guilds would be even struggling even harder as they want to level their guilds up along with giving the guild bonus effects.


Aviendha

It would basically be a continuous coming and going of people while the "core" stays the same.. And tbh, I don't want that myself, at all, if I recruit someone the aim is for them to stay, I don't invite people left and right in the hopes that something might stick.

I rather have people who are active and do something, with whom I can create a safe environment. I want to build up something. I don't want to force anyone to do anything either, the focus is to have fun. Seeing as irl can be a bitch sometimes, I don't expect everyone to always be at their best activity level.

We also do not want to kick people and have people coming and going all the time. I also want to continue to keep building an healthy and fun environment where we can lean on and trust our guild members. Not sure what the answer is for this but I know something needs to change. There have been good ideals listed here so hopefully something will happen.
 
I just don't think the experia bug is anything that needed any attention. Return it to the original setting and let the guilds level. It still takes the individuals time and effort and gold. The small guilds will not gain any unreasonable advantage and may actually encourage them to play more.

Honestly, in the hierarchy of abuses, this is not the one that deserves attention. Let the guilds level!
 
I'm going to play devil's advocate here: the buff is pretty much mandatory but the bank/store are luxury items and if you can't afford to progress your guild and buy all the stuff with XP, then don't buy all the stuff with xp. Don't buy an xbox if you can't put food on the table.

In HCIC we get between 10k-14k gxp a week. We buy the rank8 buff and the rank1 bank. I don't know why guilds are buying anything more than the rank1 bank in the first place. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you want to store items, chests exist. You can set them to guild. We have a ton of guild chests in HCIC for things like lunafrosts, ship designs, etc. The stuff in the gbank is the valuable stuff we hand out to our members. It's a delivery vehicle with access control. It's not a mass-storage solution and anyone who treats it that way is either generating a ton of gxp, not buying the buff too, or hemorrhaging gxp because they don't understand the math behind it.

I don't think that the XP requirements for ranking need to change beyond where they are now. The sole purpose of the ranking changes were to change caste bid eligibility. Nobody who fails to get their guild XP in a week should be able to hold a castle. I don't think the cost of the guild buffs need to change either. Yeah, they're expensive. But they're good. Really good. How much gold would you pay for a consumable that did this for 30 minutes?

1601269041765.png


Probably a lot, right? Now how much would you pay to have it on 24/7? A lot. And you will if you want it.

My personal stance on their fix for this exploit is that it's sloppy. I think that experias should be harvestable by the person who planted them or any character on their account. I regularly plant experias on my main and harvest them on my alts. Then I get to pick what character/guild gets the bigger experias (and more XP). Make them like farmers workstations or farms that are shared on the same account.
 
Would just like to add that I never said to change the amount needed for the rankings, only that accumulative experience opens up access to the custom guild content. So just earning 1k extra, in my example, to get the store on top of earning a place in rankings.
 
I had suggested that the experia be available to all characters on an account and this was Sparkle's reply:

"Only the person who planted it can harvest. You need to plant it with another character if you want to gather experia with it.
The change that was made today was a bug fix and that is the only possible way to fix it. It's not possible to change it for any character on the account to be able to interact."

Allow people to use the experia as Dahmer suggests, " I regularly plant experias on my main and harvest them on my alts. Then I get to pick what character/guild gets the bigger experias (and more XP). Make them like farmers workstations or farms that are shared on the same account. " This will help direct gxp, especially for smaller guilds.
 
The main reason of the changes was to fix a bug that allowed multiple players to interact with the same object simultaneously. We are currently looking for the better solution that would make it more comfortable for the players but will still prevent the bug abuse.​
​
Regarding the Guild Functions, I need to remind you that you can trade certificates with other guilds or do craft orders. You can also buy guild certificates of a higher level from other guilds and use them on your guild.​
 
The point of the matter now is people cant gain enough exp to sell to other guilds either. even a very active level 8 guild cannot afford to sell these buffs to others. please review the above context instead of making excuses to not fix it. IT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED
 
XP provided from the quests and Experia didn't change. Players still receive exactly the same amount of XP as before.
 
I say this realizing that i'll most likely have the answer myself before you can respond, but do the new guild quests provide guild xp and/or prestige?
 
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