Poll: Shadowstep, BEL & Charge - Global Cooldown

[Hny]

@Semerian

I get what you are trying to say with the examples you listed but I think it's missing the mark.
What you said with the giant clock would much more apply to the question if Erenor should be added in the game or not. Not about tweaking skills.

I agree though, that if 3.5 is coming soon with skill changes, we should wait for that but still, does that mean we shouldn't ever try to balance things ourself just because the "official" developers have tested and done it all before? (which I highly doubt unless you can prove me that otherwise)

The developers messed up on a lot of things which caused players to leave. Skill complaints have always been there, just ignored. If something is bugging people, silencing them is not the right way to go about it. Just imagine being on the other side. Like, if you are playing against a class that has heavily loaded skills and they do the same thing over and over and you can't avoid it with anything you try. Even if you dodge it, the resets they have make up for that.

Just take a look at every other game, even private servers. People try out stuff all the time to enhance people's game experience and make it their "own" game and not just follow the footsteps of a game that is dying out due to the developer's mistakes.

I really really don't get why you're so defensive (or well, "protective" in your own words). Trying out stuff doesn't hurt. You don't lose anything and I'm sure if there is change that people are bothered by, they're gonna voice up. You don't need tons of people trying it beforehand and you surely don't need the best of the best to agree with the changes. I mean, how many people are actually up the arena leader scores constantly compared to how many people queue in the arena lol. Only listening to the 1% top tier players has messed with big title games like Overwatch as well causing a big uproar and "forum raids".

"(..) it's me being protective in general of being able to play this server." That's overdramatic. There's so much more to this game (and private server) than just a tiny skill change. You can still play the game.

"Too much or too little change can cause problems." Welcome to the world of game developing. You'll always have people complaining and new problems coming up, no matter what you do- but what can actually improve ones game experience if you're taking a look at ArcheAge / ArcheRage ? taking risks, being creative and just constantly working on it.

 

[Semerian]

The reason why I stated that players would all need to have good pings to properly test is so that ping doesn't influence the factor on win/losses while editing number values of specific skill abilities. If I go with 30 ping against you with 200 ping, I'm DR you're Archer, let's say I win every fight. So devs modify your damage / skill abilities to make you stronger. Now with me @ 30 ping and you at 200 you've been balanced so I win, and you win some which is great. HOWEVER now with those changes implemented, let's put me with 30 ping against another archer of your same class/ build with 30 ping. You think the result will remain the same? We'll both win equal fights? Just think about it.

"So what you're saying is "The devs at XLGames have tested this, it made it into the game, and therefore it is balanced just fine, so no need to tweak anything?" Do I understand this right ?"

I did not say this, please re-read what I've said. I said they spent thousands of hours testing these balance changes, while our current devs have not. I did not say the numbers are perfect, but in order to modify and patch abilities, our current devs must put an equal amount of hours into testing as the original devs have, and even after such testing is done it's impossible to get balance perfect there are too many variables.

Is this really that hard to understand?

 

[Remloss]

This doesn't effect just DRs. It effects all melee users.

The point of a gap closer is so that you can attack right away. If you can't attack right away then why bother? They'll just run away before you can get a hit in. The reason why archers get a second is because they can attack at a distance and melee can ONLY attack if they are within a certain range. This is probably one of the first games where melee isn't a trashcan in pvp but if you take away the functionality of the gap closers then it's not just dunking a single class but anyone that uses battle rage.

Blighter and Abolisher that's slower moving would get ruined and they are actually counters to DRs. You don't want to mess with all of melee just because a certain class combo is really good. There's always a go to class in any pvp game but that changes in 3.5 when some other class combos are better. We'll probably have a more spread out population later on.

 

[COLDF13ND]

I'd just like to say that any testing should be done with the top rated players with the lowest ping in order to have a solid benchmark. The more variables you introduce, the more it skews your results. Aside from that, no changes should be made to cater to people with high ping.

 

[Velorra]

The point of a gap closer is so that you can attack right away.

The point of a gap closer is to close a gap. Being able to "attack right away" is different from "bypassing an animation". If you're able to trip me before the hammer drops in your BEL, I have no counterplay other than to be able to see you in stealth 20 meters away before you use the ability. That's like a mage casting Arc Lightning on you before hitting you with a move that gives you the Shock debuff, but being able to weave Chain Lightning BEFORE Arc Lightning's animation finishes. If you see they're casting Arc Lightning on you but you don't have the Shocked debuff, you're far less worried about the damage you're about to eat, but it sure doesn't sound fair for mages to be able to combo 43% more damage by bypassing an animation and giving you zero time to prepare for it, huh?

 

[trapwhre02]

Sorry @Semerian but everything you've posted so far, was completely biased towards your class.
None of what you said shows that you are open for change or simple tweaks. Everytime anyone here finds an argument of why this change should be implemented, you reply with the same argumentation, which is: "It'd have to be tested and that's impossible for this server."

The reason is simple, if your suggestion was implemented DR's and only DR's would be impacted.

This was the second sentence in your very first reply. Shadowstep is not only used by DR, so this argumentation was completly pointless.

Yes other classes would be affected as well,

you even said the exact opposite a few hours later. It just shows that you weren't thinking when writing your first post, and your mind was driven by furiousity for a change that would make your class less broken.

3.5 is already supposed to nerf DR's , implementing this along with 3.5 would pretty much eliminate the class entirely as a viable PvP option.

You never played 3.5. You have no personal experience about any of it, not the slightest. All you did was read some changes and from what you've read, you came to the conclusion that DR becomes utterly worthless. May I ask what exactly you read on the 3.5 official patch-notes that make you think this way ? Show me, what 3.5 introduced, that directly nerfed DR, other than weapon-proc nerfs.

Almost every other skill has a regular cooldown, I myself don't see a reason why those 3 shouldn’t."

The reasoning is simple really. As a DR , Shadowstep / Beh/ Charge are primary engagement abilities.

BEL has a CC break for Bubble Trap, Petrify, Telekinesis, by far some of the strongest and longest CCs.
It applies Snare as a CC, which results in a Trip, which is another super strong CC.
It distresses Snared targets

It can avoid you from taking fall damage
It is a gap-closer, just as much as an escape-skill
It lets you target different elevations, including people mid-air
It grants -15% physical damage and -35% duration for Shackle, Snow, Snare & Impale for 4 seconds after being used if you spec the Reckless Charge passive
It is an aoe impact
It has a 20meter range
It has 21s cooldown, 18.9 if spec'd into the Delirium passive, (i don't play DR myself, but i'm sure every Melee runs this)
Battlefocus reduces the Cooldown further to 11.6 for the duration of 20 seconds
Parries reset this skill entirely every 12s if you use the passive
AND it has a shortened GCD.

Sorry but if you label this skill simply as an "engagement skill" when it literally has every use one can think of, then you are just really really ignorant. BEL DOESN'T NEED A HALFED GCD. Whoever says anything else is a biased BR-tree user that will cry about the slightest touch on their tree.

If somebody has a better ping then you they're probably going to win, and there is no method you can implement that would fix this.

No there might not be, but there are methods that can help make it less frustrating and more enjoyable for everyone, which is the entire point of this suggestion that you clearly fail to see.

Yes other classes would be affected as well, and for sure a primevil can very well be running an ability such as shadowstep, but a primevil doesn't need to be in melee range to effectively dps, whereas a darkrunner does. As a primevil you can remove this ability and still dps while kiting whoever you're fighting, but as DR if you're being kited and don't have access to abilities such as shadowstep, you literally do 0 damage while not in melee range.

You have 3 gap-closers in Battlerage, 6 if they reset. And you are here trying to tell me a BR-user cannot stay in melee range to deal damage because 3 skills won't let you immediately attack ? What is going on in your head, seriously.
Have you ever compared the cooldowns from Charge, Tigerstrike, BEL, Shadowstep, to Teleport & Mirror Warp?

Base / Delirium passive / +Battlefocus
12s Charge / 10.8s / 6.6s
18s TS / 16.2s / 9.9s
21s BEL / 18.9 / 11.6s
18s Shadowstep

30s Teleport
42s Mirror-Warp
resets only available with 10th passive and it's RNG.

Can you see something here ? Any Melee that fails to catch someone that doesn't run Battlerage is an awful Melee, that has absolutely NO CLUE how to play the class. You can use Charge 3(!!) times within 20s with Battle Focus up, TS & BEL twice.
You have 7 Gapclosers you can use in the time-frame of 20seconds, excluding Shadowstep, Teleport & Mirror Warp.

0.5 seconds of no dps as a Darkrunner is a lot of dps which can be essential to getting the final blow for victory.

You are here, telling us that it should stay 0.5s, because if it was any longer, you would miss out on too much DPS.
But you deliberately ignore the fact, that everyone who wants to get away instead, has to wait double that time and should just "suck it up". Not only do you have more skills to catch up, yours are also way better than those skills used to get away. I can't put in words how incredibly biased the stuff you write is.

When i tell you exactly this ^. That it isn't fair the slightest, you answer with:

It's not fair. Class balance has been an issue since MMO's first came out.

What kind of an awful excuse is this ? You literally say yourself how unfair it is to others, and you try to find excuses as to why it should stay this way so you can further benefit from this.

You keep arguing with "this or that would need THOUSAND OF HOURS OF TESTING"
If that was the case, we should all just 100% follow trion's route, and have no custom stuff at all, because none of the devs are capable of achieving such high amounts of test-time for the simplest changes.

It's not me being overprotective of my class, it's me being protective in general of being able to play this server.

How does this tweak affect your ability to play on this server in the slightest way ? Giving BEL a regular GCD won't magically delete your ArcheRage from your PC. (which i am starting to wish for to happen)

The point of a gap closer is so that you can attack right away. If you can't attack right away then why bother? They'll just run away before you can get a hit in.

Read the top part of this post. If you cannot catch a class that doesn't run BR aswell or Auramancy reset passive, then you are bad at the class and don't deserve to catch anyone. God dang it have none of you Melee people ever played Archery ? Because if you did you'd stop with these stupid "just run away, just kite" arguments.

The reason why archers get a second is because they can attack at a distance

Archers never have "distance" against a class that doesn't give a damn about distance. If i teleport and fire a Charged Bolt, I am 2 seconds on GCD where I cannot kite any further. Do you know how vulnerable that makes you feel ?
If i am the first person to use Teleport to get a way, you can not only close the gap, but you can also sleep or fear me before my GCD from Teleport ended. Do you not see what is wrong here ?
In the time I use 1 skill to get away, you can catch up and CC me so porting away for me is completely pointless and just delays my death.

If you see they're casting Arc Lightning on you but you don't have the Shocked debuff, you're far less worried about the damage you're about to eat, but it sure doesn't sound fair for mages to be able to combo 43% more damage by bypassing an animation and giving you zero time to prepare for it, huh?

This is exactly what I'm getting at. Have you ever experienced Chump apply shock on you with Chain Lightning and then 1 hit you for 30-50K with Arc Lightning ? Imagine he could cast Arc Lightning, the animation finishes, he has time to apply shock before the damage from Arc Lightning is applied. This is EXACTLY what every BR user right now is able to do. EVERYONE, you saw the video of me doing it aswell with 100ping, can BEL into someone and TS Trip before the animation from BEL finishes.

 

[Hny]

The changes discussed here aren‘t only catering people with a high ping but the player base overall, sigh.

 

[COLDF13ND]

The changes discussed here aren‘t only catering people with a high ping but the player base overall, sigh.

A previous comment made by one of the vocal minority gave me that impression. I apologize if I misunderstood.

I would also like to mention that a gap closer is sort of pointless if you have to stand around waiting for a GCD after closing said gap, while your opponent moves away from you again.

 

[Hny]

Np, all good. @COLDF13ND
:3

 

[Velorra]

You never played 3.5. You have no personal experience about any of it, not the slightest. All you did was read some changes and from what you've read, you came to the conclusion that DR becomes utterly worthless. May I ask what exactly you read on the 3.5 official patch-notes that make you think this way ? Show me, what 3.5 introduced, that directly nerfed DR, other than weapon-proc nerfs.

Thanks to your screenshot, I can now thoroughly enjoy the new addition of "Semerian shooting himself in the foot with a rocket launcher" that seems to come about at least once a week regarding various issues surrounding the game as a whole. That being said......

This is EXACTLY what every DR right now is able to do. EVERYONE, you saw the video of me doing it aswell with 100ping, can BEL into someone and TS Trip before the animation from BEL finishes.

You should stop aiming your disgruntledness towards one class. This has nothing to do with Darkrunners and everything to do with pretty much any class utilizing Battlerage as a main DPS class. The bias is stark since this issue is visible with all melee classes as a whole. I see this happening when Blighters, Paladins, Abolishers, Shadowblades, Hexblades, and Argents engage as well with these gap closers. This shouldn't be a witch hunt after a class, but certain skills in certain skillsets. Whether or not you meant it that way, the Freudian slip won't go unnoticed by others, hurting your argument.

 

[Semerian]

Just because I have no live experience doesn't mean I have no MMO experience.
Implementing change without testing is doomed to fail end of story.
I'm done discussing this.

 

[trapwhre02]

Implementing change without testing is doomed to fail end of story.
I'm done discussing this.

Nobody ever said there should be no testing. You're putting words in my mouth I've never said because you fail to bring up valid arguments against the suggested change.

This shouldn't be a witch hunt after a class, but certain skills in certain skillsets. Whether or not you meant it that way, the Freudian slip won't go unnoticed by others, hurting your argument.

You're right, in the heat of the moment i was focussed too much on DR, as it is the class effected the most.

 

[xkf2]

Ppl in Europe and Asia and Oceanic aren't complaining that they can get snared, feared or whatever on attacker's screen while they still seeing the animation...

In fact it's more annoying that if I drive past someone and they speed run on mount past me, I can target them see that they are now very quickly 100m away and increasing rapdily...
So I should be safe right?
NO, half a second later they are right on my car attacking me...

H I L A R I O U S

Same goes for a mount too...

That's more crappy than having to deal with measly GCD changes which dun matter cause of the Attack Speed gems.... : DDDDDDDDDDD

So all in all just keep shiz the same... it dun matter anyways