Pns should be removed. You made a choice in the beginning when you started this server. East or West. Decisions have consequences. If you want to make a budget pn go pirate. There is your accommodating mechanic. To the player nation players in this post that are claiming they want pvp and crying that there is no pvp. Those people are just full of shit because if you wanted like actual competitive pvp You wouldnt stack all the highest gear scores in 1 guild . Lets be honest here you could of split your nation in 2 and you could really enjoy some competitive pvp but you wont and havnt beacuse you claim to be bored that there is no pvp. All that the player nations do is suck the only pvp players out of East and West factions and leave the rest to be slaughtered. Example the guild uwu on east. Probally alone held the east in terms of pvp. Got Sucked into playernation and since then east haven't recovered.
Should PLAYER NATIONS be removed?
- Thread starter Hny
- Start date
-
- Tags
- #playernation
- Status
Drunkenhero
Active Member
Player Nations need to not be nerfed, changed, weakened or removed. They, no matter what people think paid for the luxury of having a cross faction guild with no penalties that can rent time on either faction. They worked to secure and build castles, previous versions of the game excluded from the conversation.
What people do not realize, possibly including the Admins is there is a systemic failure in the ability for new players within a reasonable time frame (4-5 months) to legitimately gear up to compete. People forget up until one magical day that 90% of the gold earned on this server was duped or botted. Including the lucky sunpoint rewards exploit at one time, where they changed the calendar. In that time our server generated a strong and stable economy, backed by mostly illegitimate means. Since that day the server itself regressed to a series of calculated linear paths (the way the game was supposed to progress, based upon professions) that are nowhere near capable of supporting a healthy GROWING server with the gearing we mostly all have. Crafting is dead, beyond small items like ship components or poor folks obsidian gear shots in the dark for a mythic. To compete you need at least a divine buff ayanad level gear and epic ayanad weapons. Add just that up fully gemmed. That is just to compete, not even a hard mode challenge to win, its a nightmare for most. Crafting, gemming and lastly costs for regrades need a substantial balance on the bottom end to work with the actual gold earned through professions, including larceny.
Now let us get to another area involving a nearly impossible to reach section of the games upper economy, Lord's Coins/Castles. LCs themselves and the way castle peace funds function is why in this game the strong stay stronger and the weak will not even bother. You can take an hour or two of your day and create maximum amounts of alts to do castle worker quests with timers that are still too high to generate one half to one LC. Theoretical maximum of 9 LCs a day, with juggling and luck that where you work does not have times on farms for the quests you like. Real world average 3-5 maximum based upon quest juggling. Castle owners, generally the most powerful players in the game simply get 180 of them for free each cycle, as well as the marketplace system for an example additional 30/60/90 every couple days. That does not count filled silos between two castles of the same nations and robbing ones own silos for 10 per every day and a half. Percentages mailed from farms FOR FREE as well mailed directly to the Castle Lord.
180 + 60 avg + % 10-20 + 50 avg silo ='s 290-310 avg lords coins per cycle which is a extremely low ball on the amount, then you times that by two for the fact that both nations own two castles and you get 620. 80600g on a weekly cycle at the current 130g per price tag per coin in cruise control mode. Castles generate much more than this with a lot of work by a small amount of people, upwards of that amount of higher on super good WEEKS. So in a month you are looking at a bare minimum of 104k slow to no effort to a high end of 350-400k gold based upon workers and proper setup with transportation for each of those two sets of castles. That is simply ridiculous that it is in the game, no new players can ever come close to generating that heavy of an amount of currency to keep up even with heavy donations at around 33-35k per hundred dollars spent on P2W mode and maybe 30k a month playing slow without donating.
That is not counting percentages on being the sovereign with the tax rates, free gold mailed weekly, also siege yourself to bust peace funds... more gold.
That is not saying that all of this is sold for all gold, it IS however generated.
People cannot create a functional economy without a boost to trade, overseas trade, crafting, larceny and possibly even boosting daily quest rewards to match at least the bare minimum level in which said owners of castles rake in without touching much of the game, averaged out on idle to 55-56 players per castle. Regrades need to be improved up to legendary, with the costs drastically lowered as well per attempt based upon materials required.
We are not even adding in that top tier content which while not 50k an item anymore is still in fact worth gold in the game. They get that for free for two reasons.
1. A lot of people don't play the game to PvP to begin with. Hate to break it to you, some hate PvP altogether, some just do it for an hour or so now and then.
2. A lot of people cannot breach the mentioned barriers enough to effectively compete in a large scale battle, which not only requires custom classes, but the gear to go with it, months of effort compared to existing players months of RMT for an easier ride to the top.
The toxicity is irrelevant, the glitches like the mount macros to fly on boats... not just on, but on the top of sails, questionable ways around other game mechanics, such as timers and macros as well that is not addressed at all and that is why a lot of people do not care to come out to play for or against either side on the upper tiers.
Make the game relevant for people that want to play by the rules and you will have a healthy population, keep it as is and it will wind down to no one playing PvP or PvE. The server will be a ghost town.
~DH
What people do not realize, possibly including the Admins is there is a systemic failure in the ability for new players within a reasonable time frame (4-5 months) to legitimately gear up to compete. People forget up until one magical day that 90% of the gold earned on this server was duped or botted. Including the lucky sunpoint rewards exploit at one time, where they changed the calendar. In that time our server generated a strong and stable economy, backed by mostly illegitimate means. Since that day the server itself regressed to a series of calculated linear paths (the way the game was supposed to progress, based upon professions) that are nowhere near capable of supporting a healthy GROWING server with the gearing we mostly all have. Crafting is dead, beyond small items like ship components or poor folks obsidian gear shots in the dark for a mythic. To compete you need at least a divine buff ayanad level gear and epic ayanad weapons. Add just that up fully gemmed. That is just to compete, not even a hard mode challenge to win, its a nightmare for most. Crafting, gemming and lastly costs for regrades need a substantial balance on the bottom end to work with the actual gold earned through professions, including larceny.
Now let us get to another area involving a nearly impossible to reach section of the games upper economy, Lord's Coins/Castles. LCs themselves and the way castle peace funds function is why in this game the strong stay stronger and the weak will not even bother. You can take an hour or two of your day and create maximum amounts of alts to do castle worker quests with timers that are still too high to generate one half to one LC. Theoretical maximum of 9 LCs a day, with juggling and luck that where you work does not have times on farms for the quests you like. Real world average 3-5 maximum based upon quest juggling. Castle owners, generally the most powerful players in the game simply get 180 of them for free each cycle, as well as the marketplace system for an example additional 30/60/90 every couple days. That does not count filled silos between two castles of the same nations and robbing ones own silos for 10 per every day and a half. Percentages mailed from farms FOR FREE as well mailed directly to the Castle Lord.
180 + 60 avg + % 10-20 + 50 avg silo ='s 290-310 avg lords coins per cycle which is a extremely low ball on the amount, then you times that by two for the fact that both nations own two castles and you get 620. 80600g on a weekly cycle at the current 130g per price tag per coin in cruise control mode. Castles generate much more than this with a lot of work by a small amount of people, upwards of that amount of higher on super good WEEKS. So in a month you are looking at a bare minimum of 104k slow to no effort to a high end of 350-400k gold based upon workers and proper setup with transportation for each of those two sets of castles. That is simply ridiculous that it is in the game, no new players can ever come close to generating that heavy of an amount of currency to keep up even with heavy donations at around 33-35k per hundred dollars spent on P2W mode and maybe 30k a month playing slow without donating.
That is not counting percentages on being the sovereign with the tax rates, free gold mailed weekly, also siege yourself to bust peace funds... more gold.
That is not saying that all of this is sold for all gold, it IS however generated.
People cannot create a functional economy without a boost to trade, overseas trade, crafting, larceny and possibly even boosting daily quest rewards to match at least the bare minimum level in which said owners of castles rake in without touching much of the game, averaged out on idle to 55-56 players per castle. Regrades need to be improved up to legendary, with the costs drastically lowered as well per attempt based upon materials required.
We are not even adding in that top tier content which while not 50k an item anymore is still in fact worth gold in the game. They get that for free for two reasons.
1. A lot of people don't play the game to PvP to begin with. Hate to break it to you, some hate PvP altogether, some just do it for an hour or so now and then.
2. A lot of people cannot breach the mentioned barriers enough to effectively compete in a large scale battle, which not only requires custom classes, but the gear to go with it, months of effort compared to existing players months of RMT for an easier ride to the top.
The toxicity is irrelevant, the glitches like the mount macros to fly on boats... not just on, but on the top of sails, questionable ways around other game mechanics, such as timers and macros as well that is not addressed at all and that is why a lot of people do not care to come out to play for or against either side on the upper tiers.
Make the game relevant for people that want to play by the rules and you will have a healthy population, keep it as is and it will wind down to no one playing PvP or PvE. The server will be a ghost town.
~DH
Last edited:
Driveby
Member
Player nations should stay.
However Drunkenhero has a point about the economy.
The discrepancy in money generation between low-mid tier people and the 1%ers is too much of a hurdle to overcome. And before there are 50000 replies saying " I'm free to play, I've never donated a dime" , yes there are people here that have the time to invest several hours in a day farming , crafting , robbing , and killing. Most people play for a couple hours a day at best , and will NEVER approach the income that myself or the other people that are blessed with time and/or real world cash for donations have been able to achieve.
These folks deserve a way to generate income. not 50 silver per coin purse and 1 gold per crate, but real money.
I propose to double or even triple the amount of personal lord's pence that are generated by castle workers doing territory quests, while reducing the amount of lords taxes and coins they generate to the castle lord by the same factor , so as to keep the profit to the castle the same, even with the increased LC generation.
I also propose that the rewards from the mid-grade and higher mob loots be increased somewhat, but that comes with a caveat: If you increase this too much , you introduce inflation. Too little , and people fail out of the game because they realize there's no point in trying to compete.
Nations in the real world struggle with this all of the time , and most never seem to get it right. But this is a closed economy and the admins can take steps to generate player interest, retain players they already have and close the gear gap by being judicious in their modifications to it.
-Driveby
However Drunkenhero has a point about the economy.
The discrepancy in money generation between low-mid tier people and the 1%ers is too much of a hurdle to overcome. And before there are 50000 replies saying " I'm free to play, I've never donated a dime" , yes there are people here that have the time to invest several hours in a day farming , crafting , robbing , and killing. Most people play for a couple hours a day at best , and will NEVER approach the income that myself or the other people that are blessed with time and/or real world cash for donations have been able to achieve.
These folks deserve a way to generate income. not 50 silver per coin purse and 1 gold per crate, but real money.
I propose to double or even triple the amount of personal lord's pence that are generated by castle workers doing territory quests, while reducing the amount of lords taxes and coins they generate to the castle lord by the same factor , so as to keep the profit to the castle the same, even with the increased LC generation.
I also propose that the rewards from the mid-grade and higher mob loots be increased somewhat, but that comes with a caveat: If you increase this too much , you introduce inflation. Too little , and people fail out of the game because they realize there's no point in trying to compete.
Nations in the real world struggle with this all of the time , and most never seem to get it right. But this is a closed economy and the admins can take steps to generate player interest, retain players they already have and close the gear gap by being judicious in their modifications to it.
-Driveby
Walrus
Active Member
The vast majority of the players on this thread and in the game agree that Player Nation is indeed a problem. Some suggestions(nerf/removal) have been thrown around but it's clear no one has suggested anything that the majority can agree upon. Top GS players need an outlet for PVP content, and newer players need room to grow. One problem begets the other and brings about faction imbalance which the entire game's PvP system revolves around. Player nation is and has been a PvP crutch for a very long time and now that we have the crutch we cant get rid of it. Removing PN would cause more problems than it would solve because we've grown to need that crutch.
Much as it pains me to suggest something from the burning dumpster fire that is live I'm going to it anyways.
Getting a mercenary system or a modified version of it would solve much if not all of the problems with faction imbalance. The only problem is, it hasnt been released yet so theres no files for the admins to work with. Meaning all changes will have to either be coded from scratch or modified from existing 3.5/4.0 assets. Ideally, Archerage admins *could* wait for live to incorporate the update and then take the files. The problem is, we have no idea when or even if the update will ever see the light of day due to live's horrid track record.
Much as it pains me to suggest something from the burning dumpster fire that is live I'm going to it anyways.
Getting a mercenary system or a modified version of it would solve much if not all of the problems with faction imbalance. The only problem is, it hasnt been released yet so theres no files for the admins to work with. Meaning all changes will have to either be coded from scratch or modified from existing 3.5/4.0 assets. Ideally, Archerage admins *could* wait for live to incorporate the update and then take the files. The problem is, we have no idea when or even if the update will ever see the light of day due to live's horrid track record.
Last edited:
havockitty
Active Member
I dont know if people in this thread know but PN2 basicly quit with strykes and petryfy and PN1 log in only for content or to mess with some bigger organized group that doing something they will do that even if they will not be in pn and there is most of the time max 20 ppl unless "content" YOU EAST AND WEST rly dont have competition anymore noone is holding u back go and gear up if youp rly want.
Last edited:
trapwhre02
Well-Known Member
What you said is a total lie and we both know it. The only reason PN1 doesn't do much these days is because they have nobody to fight. As soon as they get wind that something in west is growing, they'll be the first ones to arise from the dead and show up in numbers as they have always done.
Hny
Member
lmao
that's what they said
And the moment a west raid pulls anthalon during your guy's time, you call all the people to contest them from getting it.
Lionheart
New Member
I think it's unrealistic for PNs to get disbanded.
People need to understand that this is a PvP game, and in PvP games, some people win, some people lose. There are a lot of factors that influence who wins :
P2W
We all know this is never going to change.
Gearscore
I strongly believe that the original factions need some type of "Gear Catch up" quest, which would allow them to hit around 6k Gearscore.
Personal Skill
I'm guessing this is what you guys mean when you refer to "Improving", but let's be honest, just like any guild or any faction in this game ever, only like 5-10% would want to improve.
Raid Comps and Raid Leaders
Unfortunately, you can do all of the rest but the bottom line is that the West has no real Raid Leader and neither does the East right now and I mean no offense with this comment.
You can have the same gearscore but you will not beat players that have played this game for 5 years and know how to raid fight.
It's not the Admin's fault or the PN's fault that there are simply no Raid Leaders that know what they are doing in PvP
People need to understand that this is a PvP game, and in PvP games, some people win, some people lose. There are a lot of factors that influence who wins :
P2W
We all know this is never going to change.
Gearscore
I strongly believe that the original factions need some type of "Gear Catch up" quest, which would allow them to hit around 6k Gearscore.
Personal Skill
I'm guessing this is what you guys mean when you refer to "Improving", but let's be honest, just like any guild or any faction in this game ever, only like 5-10% would want to improve.
Raid Comps and Raid Leaders
Unfortunately, you can do all of the rest but the bottom line is that the West has no real Raid Leader and neither does the East right now and I mean no offense with this comment.
You can have the same gearscore but you will not beat players that have played this game for 5 years and know how to raid fight.
It's not the Admin's fault or the PN's fault that there are simply no Raid Leaders that know what they are doing in PvP
The issue is what Hny said above your post, but not just for Anthalon but everything. If West pulls a group of ppl for CR/GR? PN brings a couple ppl. If they get beat up, they call in more. And more. And more. In quite a few recent cases, events just weren't done because half the raid is so undergeared they get 2-shot by people who then tell them to kill themselves and log out. Players can't learn events when being suppressed like that, new raid leaders can't learn when 10 PN can wipe out a raid, and all the while the guys on top are complaining there's no one to fight them.
Say you're on a camping trip with friends and trying to light a fire, and someone comes along with a bucket of water screaming "THIS IS DANGEROUS!" and douses the fire, then complains that it's fucking cold. That's the logic of what we're dealing with and trying to fix.
havockitty
Active Member
Look to gear up you dont need do bosses in this game bosses are reward basicly for winning in pvp. Move packs make obsidian or erenor gear, create proper raid composition then come pvp. Cuz if u continiue coming with group u do without proper skullknights and mages u can forget about bosses and pvp events. You should be happy that its not like before when u couldnt even get good players into your guild cuz if PN's sniff them they were paying them to join pn also put spies into guilds or do some even more crazy shit to make you fail.
Last edited:
Lionheart
New Member
If your CR/GR raid has an issue, talk to all the leaders of the guilds, make a west discord (no sensitive information cause u know...spies), whenever someone attacks you the raid leaders ask everyone to go on discord.
If you cannot communicate vs 10 people, then once again the game/PN isn't at fault.
If you cannot communicate vs 10 people, then once again the game/PN isn't at fault.
It seems the point has been missed. PN attacks these events because they are more coordinated, more geared, and are hungry for some kind of action, and as others have stated: every time a leader has stepped up to attempt to improve their faction, PN stomps out their efforts. That IS PN's fault. How do you expect people to get better or want to show up to events when you're showing and two-shotting half a raid alone? Last night's reset halcy, for instance. 7 PN wiped a raid of 16, East had to do absolutely nothing. Then you guys expected the raid to stay. You can't simply coordinate a dozen 4k's to beat just as many 6-8k's. This isn't Yugioh, there's no "Heart of the Cards" for us to go on here.
YOU specifically don't do this (I only see you at Kraken occasionally), but the PN that we do see are the culprits, and you are judged by the company you choose to keep. And when your nation shows up to roflstomp a bunch of lesser geared players then get mad when they don't stay around to be massacred, you guys stomp your feet and say there's no pvp and spam obscenities at those trying to improve the situation the best they can. So what do you want? You think people are willing to stick around through abuse like that?
Leaders on the East and West are trying. What are YOU guys doing about fixing this situation? Congrats, you've allied the East once again and are maybe training some them up. But in the end you're still stomping out your only source of competition, whether it be through personal attacks or event suppression.
I enjoy when people try to reassure and use examples that prove the necessity for change lmao
Last edited:
You not wanting something to happen has nothing to do with if it's realistic. It was done on the live servers with a much bigger population. It can be done here.
It has nothing to do with people's pvp prowess or lack thereof, in my opinion. What I am opposed to is the continued splintering of an already weak (compared to live) playerbase, and the overwhelming demoralization that the average player (who doesn't swipe thousands to hit 8k GS) receives when facing an impossible-to-beat enemy.
Drunkenhero
Active Member
Flipsy I disagree with what you are typing. They too are just playing a game, some of the ways you are writing sentences implies more than it actually is. People that like to fight, get killed, bring more friends and keep trying is a normal attitude to have.
Want to practice, set up a fight with people, want content you have to win. Honestly and truly I mean that and there really is a huge difference between the two types of pvp.
~DH
Want to practice, set up a fight with people, want content you have to win. Honestly and truly I mean that and there really is a huge difference between the two types of pvp.
~DH
When I'm getting called out in faction chat and spammed in DM's, in-game and out of game, for skipping one reset raid and being blamed for "telling the West to not show to events" like I'm everyone's dad? When people who can typically wipe half the West are maliciously "contacting" me mad that no one came to an event to be killed with little effort? Yeah. It sounds like it's more than just a game to people.
Lionheart
New Member
It's unrealistic because of the development time it will need to FORCE this into this patch. They did it on live after 4 years, and then they gave them faction transfers (I'm fairly sure they did anyway), which ended up being East vs West again because 2 major nations decided to split.
On this server you only have 1 PN alive ( the other one is dead), ok you force PN to disband and let us free transfer cause you can't really force friends not to play with each other, so we end up going East and West still gets destroyed everywhere.
I'm not sure how that solves your problem, which is at its roots:
- We don't have enough PvPers in the West or East Faction, and not much fresh blood to recruit from, even then they need 6 months to catch up.
- We don't have enough gear to pvp against PN ( Which I recommend a faction only quest line that gives gear, I'm not sure about details and what would make it fair tbh)
Flipsy you forget that I tried with East as well. In the end, it always ended up with <uwu> +havoc + kusuda fighting alone the 2 PNs because simply the vast majority don't give a shit about PvP.
20 people raid? Great, fun times.
10 man raid? not so fun, Cockroach formation boys.
5 man raids? yolo get on a galleon go contest.
1 man raids? (Drothroco? *cough*) yolo kill the tanks.
It's a different mentality. Different players. Different experience.
You have no leaders with experience. No organization. No effort to get west on Comms ( I'm assuming) even for pug raids. 50% of the raid in stupid pve builds.
No matter what you do, it doesn't matter if we are forced East or Pirate, you will still die at pvp because simply you haven't put as much collective effort as your opponent.
On this server you only have 1 PN alive ( the other one is dead), ok you force PN to disband and let us free transfer cause you can't really force friends not to play with each other, so we end up going East and West still gets destroyed everywhere.
I'm not sure how that solves your problem, which is at its roots:
- We don't have enough PvPers in the West or East Faction, and not much fresh blood to recruit from, even then they need 6 months to catch up.
- We don't have enough gear to pvp against PN ( Which I recommend a faction only quest line that gives gear, I'm not sure about details and what would make it fair tbh)
Flipsy you forget that I tried with East as well. In the end, it always ended up with <uwu> +havoc + kusuda fighting alone the 2 PNs because simply the vast majority don't give a shit about PvP.
20 people raid? Great, fun times.
10 man raid? not so fun, Cockroach formation boys.
5 man raids? yolo get on a galleon go contest.
1 man raids? (Drothroco? *cough*) yolo kill the tanks.
It's a different mentality. Different players. Different experience.
You have no leaders with experience. No organization. No effort to get west on Comms ( I'm assuming) even for pug raids. 50% of the raid in stupid pve builds.
No matter what you do, it doesn't matter if we are forced East or Pirate, you will still die at pvp because simply you haven't put as much collective effort as your opponent.
Drunkenhero
Active Member
Agreed
We have leaders trying. We have comms for Luscas and halcy. Those insane fights at halcy back when Gildarmesh was leading East, we had comms. Those who have tried are met with immediate opposition that can't be matched, and toxicity one can't help but cringe at. Uphill battles are my jam. I picked up the West in its worst moments and made something of it, and even when telling my guild to never vote for me for hero, I get Erenor hero (that trash cloak) because I'm the prominent one that consistently tries on the west. But the only way these guys can get better to give you even remotely a good fight is for either:
A: people experienced in aspects come back and train these ragtag people interested in pvp (they exist)
Or B: let them figure it out on their own
So far it has been C: complain they aren't up to your standards as you stomp their faces into the ground, then get mad they aren't licking your boots
- Status