Should PLAYER NATIONS be removed?

[havockitty]

We have leaders trying. We have comms for Luscas and halcy. Those insane fights at halcy back when Gildarmesh was leading East, we had comms. Those who have tried are met with immediate opposition that can't be matched, and toxicity one can't help but cringe at. Uphill battles are my jam. I picked up the West in its worst moments and made something of it, and even when telling my guild to never vote for me for hero, I get Erenor hero (that trash cloak) because I'm the prominent one that consistently tries on the west. But the only way these guys can get better to give you even remotely a good fight is for either:
A: people experienced in aspects come back and train these ragtag people interested in pvp (they exist)
Or B: let them figure it out on their own

So far it has been C: complain they aren't up to your standards as you stomp their faces into the ground, then get mad they aren't licking your boots

Thats kinda bs ? I see ur raids full of blighters and abolishers almost no SK. Thats basic thing to tell ur tanks to be SK i see absolutly no effort in ur raids. Or they just dont want to respec ?

 

[Flipsy]

Thats kinda bs ? I see ur raids full of blighters and abolishers almost no SK. Thats basic thing to tell ur tanks to be SK i see absolutly no effort in ur raids. Or they just dont want to respec ?

Aside from a couple of recent times in the last few weeks, I don't recall seeing you in any opposing raids that I lead so I'm unsure at what time frame and event you are referring to. But to answer your question, I pose another question. Who is supposed to suggest that to them? All the most experienced people, all the leaders that already exist, the people with that knowledge are all in the faction complaining of no raid pvp. There's no one to teach that. Forget that Trickster has 4 SK's, and look at the overall factions. We don't have the leadership, why are we getting beat down and treated like trash for not knowing "the perfect ratio" of classes in different sized raids? And this is my point. PN has the people to help, there are people willing to learn. Instead, we're met with complaints that stem from us "not doing it right", when all you guys gotta do is make your own pvp and teach those that are willing. Instead, 90% of all interactions the vanilla factions are met with regarding PN have been toxic in content, malicious in nature, and somehow you guys expect these people to just...be okay with that.

 

[Drunkenhero]

When I'm getting called out in faction chat and spammed in DM's, in-game and out of game, for skipping one reset raid and being blamed for "telling the West to not show to events" like I'm everyone's dad? When people who can typically wipe half the West are maliciously "contacting" me mad that no one came to an event to be killed with little effort? Yeah. It sounds like it's more than just a game to people.

Then you are letting them win by letting it bother you. It is what they do, who cares, few right clicks in Discord and game and it is not visible. It's part of it, always has been and always will be. Just roll with it, keep trucking and see how it goes on that front.

 

[Drunkenhero]

Also remember one thing, I added an Easter Egg in the main reply I made, clearly labelled and one not mentioned in this conversation, touched on or otherwise yet.... that should be the main point and adjustment needed as part of this conversation lmao. But alas, I can only guide you, I cannot make you see it. By my very nature I really don't worry about it, but I think the majority of you really will not ever see it and it IS the main handicap of this game since its implementation in retail, here or wherever.

 

[Walrus]

Then you are letting them win by letting it bother you. It is what they do, who cares, few right clicks in Discord and game and it is not visible. It's part of it, always has been and always will be. Just roll with it, keep trucking and see how it goes on that front.

I was under the assumption you had more control over your members than that; for you have certainly demonstrated the ability to control all the other aspects of their playstyle.

 

[Drunkenhero]

I was under the assumption you had more control over your members than that; for you have certainly demonstrated the ability to control all the other aspects of their playstyle.

Not talking about my own members my friend. Flipsy is not either. Also, jibbs or jabs aside I never bother to control anything.

 

[Flipsy]

Then you are letting them win by letting it bother you. It is what they do, who cares, few right clicks in Discord and game and it is not visible. It's part of it, always has been and always will be. Just roll with it, keep trucking and see how it goes on that front.

I personally am not letting them get to me. You've interacted with me, there is no "getting to me". My statements are a generic blanket for the majority of the West. They don't play the game to be fish in a barrel to people who are also being assholes to them. It is them behaving like it is more than "just a game" and "just PVP". To complain there is no PVP then stifle those trying to PVP is hypocritical, and the East don't complain about this issue. A few idiots on the West might say it as a meme, but the vast majority are not spoken for by the loud few. It's only PN at this point.

 

[Walrus]

I personally am not letting them get to me. You've interacted with me, there is no "getting to me". My statements are a generic blanket for the majority of the West. They don't play the game to be fish in a barrel to people who are also being assholes to them. It is them behaving like it is more than "just a game" and "just PVP". To complain there is no PVP then stifle those trying to PVP is hypocritical, and the East don't complain about this issue. A few idiots on the West might say it as a meme, but the vast majority are not spoken for by the loud few. It's only PN at this point.

Some do complain here on the East, but most take the path of least resistance. Which usually involves tending to potatoes.



It's been a long time since we've had a united front, the collapse of Lads was pretty much the last "big" coordinated effort. Most alliances efforts shattered shortly after that. Now any sizable effort is usually a motly assortment of smaller guilds rallying behind whatever commander that volunteers for cat-herding duty.

 

[Hny]

and then they gave them faction transfers (I'm fairly sure they did anyway), which ended up being East vs West again because 2 major nations decided to split.

false, no faction transfers.

Also, disbanding a nation isn't that hard lol

 

[plamp]

I think that some of the people complaining about PN and how things are playing out on the server don't realize that archeage is a game whose servers have clearly defined winners and losers.

 

[Flipsy]

I think that some of the people complaining about PN and how things are playing out on the server don't realize that archeage is a game whose servers have clearly defined winners and losers.

There can be clearly defined winners and losers, but the complaint from the 'winners' is "There is no PVP".
1. When an attempt is made to make a sizeable force to PVP with, it is squashed.
2. When an attempt is made for the vanilla factions to get better, it is squashed.
3. When an attempt is made to improve morale so more people are interested in PVP, it is squashed.

Those who complain about it are ruining the very efforts to improve gameplay they're demanding/asking for. Does PN want PVP or don't they? Do they want people to actually fight them or don't they? Do they want people to WANT to show up or don't they? Because actions speak louder than words, and words say "We want PVP" but actions say "keep potatoing until we bore ourselves off the game". Because when met with impossible odds, it's very clear that the West and East are willing to walk away from a fight instead of throwing their bodies at you guys unable to make a dent. These guys see avoiding PVP as a punishment to you, and if that's what you guys want, then keep doing what you're doing. Only a few of us continue to show up consistently and try to have a fight, but every time we bring people, the opposing force brings enough to where we can't even kill 1 person, then we get an earful of complaints. You have the opportunity to call more. We have no more.

We (those on my side of the fence) are saying "make your own PVP" if that's what you want. We've tried to make PVP better and are met with an impenetrable wall right from the get-go. Not much else can be said about that. And as I said awhile back: We already know the direction the server is going with Player Nations. We already know how toxic it is for the population overall. The most competitive people you guys can fight against are your own allies in that nation (hence your in-house scrimmages to keep people entertained). We know that all of you are real people with friends, family, and the like. You have people in PN that I am friends with, and I still willingly jump into a fight, attack them, and have a laugh about it afterwards. Why does splitting up a Player Nation make it so you can't do the same?

 

[Lionheart]

The issue is that we may easily stomp a pug raid at gr/cr with 15 people but I doubt it would be that easy for us if you guys make a serious effort to get organised.

<Trickster> has a castle, so I'm guessing you must have at least 20 actives
<Disorderly Conduct> has a castle, so I'm guessing you must have at least 20 actives.
<Fake News> is a guild merged with some experienced pvp players. Not sure how many they got but they should provide with a solid Raid core.
<HCIC> <Ultima Legion> are other west guilds we've seen around.

Why don't you all sit down, get organised, get everyone in correct builds, make sure everyone has you know....raid pots, organise some big event every week, like coming out randomly on a Tuesday Kraken, or sweeping through at an RD.
Fight together in a raid v raid setting, get some experience, yes you might lose, but there's many ways to make content cancer for us.
How come it was possible for East to do that with <uwu> <Panic> <Just Us Lads> <Get in the Van> <House of Mantis>? Because there was someone willing to organise the raid.

I'm not complaining about the lack of PvP personally because I know this game in the end will always have 1 winner. Also if I want PvP I just do arenas or come cr/gr and contest.

But you need to stop complaining that you're getting squashed or bullied. This is a PvP game, and content is in PvP zones, and for the year that I've played on this server the only time West came out to Kraken was when it was Pirates + East + West fighting PN1, when we were alternating drops.
When you don't compete, when you don't contest for year(s), the other team gets ahead, it is simply how this game is, and if you DID contest and they won and they got ahead, well then they deserve the win.

It's funny because everyone is acting like West is out of options, but you guys have 2 castles, a couple of guilds doing DGS here and there, even won a dom yesterday vs PN1.
If you're complaining this much, what should the East say? East literally has 0 chance or options.

TLDR - Look in your guild mirror first, fix them first, become the core that the west needs, find other guilds that want to do the same, get organised and the pugs will fall in line (or you will recruit the good ones).

 

[Aviendha]

false, no faction transfers.

Also, disbanding a nation isn't that hard lol

There actually will be faction transfers on the new live server, but only available when one or the other faction is weaker and people have to apply to it.

 

[HNIC_Steamroller]

If we're not going to delete player nations, at least make them go to jail if they take a pvp death on the continents of nuia or haranya, just like pirates. There needs to be a down-side to the ability to cherry-pick the most geared pvpers from both factions. That's what pirate is -- it's give-and-take. The give is that you get to team up with the other faction. The take is that you go to jail if you die in a nuia or haranya zone. It works, because it's fair.

 

[Lionheart]

PN's take is that it takes 150k gold in mats and a decent questline that you can contest in a couple of phases to do.

 

[Drunkenhero]

If we're not going to delete player nations, at least make them go to jail if they take a pvp death on the continents of nuia or haranya, just like pirates. There needs to be a down-side to the ability to cherry-pick the most geared pvpers from both factions. That's what pirate is -- it's give-and-take. The give is that you get to team up with the other faction. The take is that you go to jail if you die in a nuia or haranya zone. It works, because it's fair.

Disagree, they are not pirates. Pirates should have that drawback as they do not collect infamy. PN's can also ally which might make that hard to bring to a functional state.

 

[Drunkenhero]

The player nations have earned the right to play the game how it has been setup. Like before, I do believe the only way to actually bring about some balance is to do the same thing we did before creating the second player nation. Population ebb and flow would balance over time... or it wouldn't. But the game needs boosted in other areas and nerfs in other areas related to castles and lords coins generation, that alone will combat a player nation. I do not like the people, I don't actually like many people but win lose or draw they earned what they have. Take it from them, or in some ways live with it. Everyone in here complaining wont contest all day for content, which is what they do, the last group of purely PvP players. Fight them, or with some small changes elsewhere level the economic playing field. But shaking a stick and barking on the losing end just looks like you are actually just wanting a participation trophy in a game that isn't designed to be as such. You earn through manpower and effort 90% of this game.

 

[Drunkenhero]

Examples:

Kraken: Both West and East have the numbers of people that COULD contest this. To simply burn the timer of the spawn itself.

Red Dragon: Same thing, doesnt take much for a zerg wipe.

Lusca, Abyssal: SAME THING LOL

Thunderwing: LOL SAME THING ON THE HORN

Castles: Make top 20 guilds on both sides or use what is available for both sides to siege every cycle. Burns gold, helps people learn pvp, wont ever happen. Even if you do not get a scroll, keep bidding. The stars would align.

Do I want to do this? Hell no, too lazy rather farm. But I am also not saying you need to disband them or nerf them, they put int he work.


If the server truly wanted them not in the place they are then the server as a whole would do something about it. Till then, the focus should be on LORDS COINS, Free Gold and several other areas double castles let people stay in power with the amount of free shit they get. Free to low effort shit 100 to 1000 times the amount any other player can make with trade or solo farming. That is the area that needs improved.

~DH

 

[Flipsy]

the game needs boosted in other areas and nerfs in other areas related to castles and lords coins generation, that alone will combat a player nation.

PN owns 2x the castles as a group in comparison to the other castle owners. Tell me: how exactly does the improvement of LC generation help non-PN catch up when mathematically, they have twice as many castles at their disposal?

 

[trapwhre02]

PN's take is that it takes 150k gold in mats and a decent questline that you can contest in a couple of phases to do.

150K is peanuts. Literally nothing.
Wasn't PN1 funded by cheated gold anyways or is that only a meme ?
Because if it's true, then everyone has to quit saying they earned their current position.