havockitty
Active Member
what is the point for obsidian to even exist with unnerfed hiram in game ?
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ArcheRage 4.5: "Legends Return" - Pre-Update Official Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Sparkle
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I totally agree with this, actually it could be increased even more, maybe then players would think twice about being green pirates.
Infamy gain has been increased. Larceny now grants 5 Infamy (up from 1), Assault grants 5 Infamy (up from 1), and Murder grants 50 Infamy (up from 10.)
Infamy gain has been increased. Larceny now grants 5 Infamy (up from 1), Assault grants 5 Infamy (up from 1), and Murder grants 50 Infamy (up from 10.)
Marlboroford
New Member
everything he said basically and if hiram doesnt get a nerf remove the nerf from erenor..... crime points increase is one of the best thing implemented. dream ring and others shoundt be changed.
and yes the invinsibility thing is a must.
Marlboroford
New Member
same here, and it should be like in real life, after first offence start stacking up in jail time.
Stirling
New Member
Hiram shouldn't be added at all, Celestial T1 Hiram was decent to have on officials at 4.5 although game started to become shit fiesta when epic hiram was released, 90% of the players gear turned into trash. Why people would play anyway if hiram exists here, most of people stopped to play on officials afterwards hiram shit happened.
RogueChoi
Active Member
Hiram T1 & T2 needs to come unchanged. I think Obsidian needs to go ahead and start being phased out, otherwise future patches won't make any sense, especially when the library and dungeon armors change. Regarding Hiram, my only concern with the system is that it heavily relied on cash shop for infusions, drop rates, crystallization stuff, etc. That kinda worries me here if the reliance on cash shop for Hiram supplies could be relaxed just a little.
Erenor nerfs need to be removed or progressively eased out. Eventually, we will run into the issue that T3 Hiram is STRONGER than a 10% nerf Erenor, easier/cheaper to obtain and feed, and ALSO has a unique skin, so you can no longer claim Erenor is crafted only for appearance and deserves the perpetual nerf. To add to that, we'll later get to the issue that T4 Hiram = T2 Erenor if there's a 10% nerf, yet requires half the investment of time and money. Kinda bizarre, right? Also, the "less exp to level" and "lower cost/exp bonus" on feeding doesn't justify the nerfs. I also don't think Erenor feeding nerfs in 4.5 were really necessary from any standpoint.
Skill Changes - I actually can't decide on this. I've been Vitalism on Archeage for over 5 years now, but I also jumped ship to ArcheRage with friends right around 4.5 (not related to Hiram or skill changes, I was just sick of supporting Trino). Vitalism combos and classes arguably change the most. Healer seemingly becomes more complex and bizarre with our new combos. I'm going to miss Cleric and my main class, Templar, being very optimal and viable. That said, I also am interested in having more options open up to me, despite the combos being in trees that rely on Magic Attack instead of Healing power. Honestly, I'm super torn on how I feel. I want things to be shaken up a bit in our class meta, especially because those changes only grow in 4.7/5.0/5.1/5.2/6.0 and beyond so vastly different than our current metas. That kinda excites me to find new ways of playing Vitalism as a multi purpose utility class. I also worry about how much work it will be to gut the 4.5 changes, and continue blocking all changes to skill trees in metas beyond 4.5, and I just don't think gutting it is worth it. I am rather worried about cc breaks getting gutted pretty badly if anything.
Invincibility/Invisibility doesn't really need to happen. I pve and pvp. I don't think we have much of an invince issue anymore, the Ravenspine changes were enough. I think that its unnecessary or maybe not implemented as drastically. I am more concerned about immunity from being chain cc'd being gutted. 4.0 is already a CC shitshow.
Crimes Changes I slightly agree with, it'll make those who want to gank or steal packs have to weigh the cost of their actions just a bit more. However, I think the increase to 5 for assault and 50 points for murder is extremely excessive. If anything, I would just say 1->2 or 3 for assault, and 10->15 or 20 for murder. I think that will lessen sprees of inbalanced gearscore ganking, while still allowing gankers to get done what they wanted to do if they're strategic about it.
Stat Changes love them, keep please. Except maybe ease how disgusting crit stacking becomes. It's already spooky in 4.0.
T3 Lunagems - Crit got scary, and lunarite is already disgusting to get for most slots. Most people can't afford any T2's except waveglow as is.
DON'T REMOVE FACTION CHAT. I don't know how I can survive losing a source of attention.
Dragon Mounts - Implemented please. We already have custom gliders, pets, and mounts that drastically changed how we do large scale combat. Many people like dragons and would like to have these. They take work and are not free to keep usable every 30 days. Maybe a few changes if people can compare to future patches to see how even XL changed them, and implement those changes sooner. Personally, I'm just not a dragon guy, but I know others would like them! Keep the heartshard tradable so those carebears or people who can't get access to the raid loot for whatever reason have an option to obtain one someday.
Along these notes, I want to for an updated cycling after 4.5 since that's the last major hurdle that people hated. There's not much adjustment time needed between 4.5 <> 4.7 <> 5.0/5.1/5.2.
imagine if the admins didn't ban marketplace pricing and quitting posts and actually took those factors into account for the longevity, health, and morale of the community and player economy. Oh wait, that affects their income from a game and 3D assets they have no rights, ownership, or license to.
Erenor nerfs need to be removed or progressively eased out. Eventually, we will run into the issue that T3 Hiram is STRONGER than a 10% nerf Erenor, easier/cheaper to obtain and feed, and ALSO has a unique skin, so you can no longer claim Erenor is crafted only for appearance and deserves the perpetual nerf. To add to that, we'll later get to the issue that T4 Hiram = T2 Erenor if there's a 10% nerf, yet requires half the investment of time and money. Kinda bizarre, right? Also, the "less exp to level" and "lower cost/exp bonus" on feeding doesn't justify the nerfs. I also don't think Erenor feeding nerfs in 4.5 were really necessary from any standpoint.
Skill Changes - I actually can't decide on this. I've been Vitalism on Archeage for over 5 years now, but I also jumped ship to ArcheRage with friends right around 4.5 (not related to Hiram or skill changes, I was just sick of supporting Trino). Vitalism combos and classes arguably change the most. Healer seemingly becomes more complex and bizarre with our new combos. I'm going to miss Cleric and my main class, Templar, being very optimal and viable. That said, I also am interested in having more options open up to me, despite the combos being in trees that rely on Magic Attack instead of Healing power. Honestly, I'm super torn on how I feel. I want things to be shaken up a bit in our class meta, especially because those changes only grow in 4.7/5.0/5.1/5.2/6.0 and beyond so vastly different than our current metas. That kinda excites me to find new ways of playing Vitalism as a multi purpose utility class. I also worry about how much work it will be to gut the 4.5 changes, and continue blocking all changes to skill trees in metas beyond 4.5, and I just don't think gutting it is worth it. I am rather worried about cc breaks getting gutted pretty badly if anything.
Invincibility/Invisibility doesn't really need to happen. I pve and pvp. I don't think we have much of an invince issue anymore, the Ravenspine changes were enough. I think that its unnecessary or maybe not implemented as drastically. I am more concerned about immunity from being chain cc'd being gutted. 4.0 is already a CC shitshow.
Crimes Changes I slightly agree with, it'll make those who want to gank or steal packs have to weigh the cost of their actions just a bit more. However, I think the increase to 5 for assault and 50 points for murder is extremely excessive. If anything, I would just say 1->2 or 3 for assault, and 10->15 or 20 for murder. I think that will lessen sprees of inbalanced gearscore ganking, while still allowing gankers to get done what they wanted to do if they're strategic about it.
Stat Changes love them, keep please. Except maybe ease how disgusting crit stacking becomes. It's already spooky in 4.0.
T3 Lunagems - Crit got scary, and lunarite is already disgusting to get for most slots. Most people can't afford any T2's except waveglow as is.
DON'T REMOVE FACTION CHAT. I don't know how I can survive losing a source of attention.
Dragon Mounts - Implemented please. We already have custom gliders, pets, and mounts that drastically changed how we do large scale combat. Many people like dragons and would like to have these. They take work and are not free to keep usable every 30 days. Maybe a few changes if people can compare to future patches to see how even XL changed them, and implement those changes sooner. Personally, I'm just not a dragon guy, but I know others would like them! Keep the heartshard tradable so those carebears or people who can't get access to the raid loot for whatever reason have an option to obtain one someday.
Along these notes, I want to for an updated cycling after 4.5 since that's the last major hurdle that people hated. There's not much adjustment time needed between 4.5 <> 4.7 <> 5.0/5.1/5.2.
imagine if the admins didn't ban marketplace pricing and quitting posts and actually took those factors into account for the longevity, health, and morale of the community and player economy. Oh wait, that affects their income from a game and 3D assets they have no rights, ownership, or license to.
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lilgankster
Member
give us swiftblade
Zecen
Active Member
Ah the start of the end of AA on how it used to be.
*Dont decrease the amount of skill points we can obtain. If I remember right we get nerfed that way.
*Go over skill changes carefully. A lot of classes were nerfed with this change. Don’t change the passives in the classes. I found that many passives were utterly destroyed and many good ones gone.
*If you are going to change how the core stats work then you should aid those that did a hybrid build that made sense before 4.5. Example is melee using both agility and strength. Now agility is useless to them and I’m sure many use it. Don’t give this bull well u know this was coming bs because no one is gonna wait 2 years for their stats to make sense.
*Not sure about the armor cool down swap? Is it needed
*Dont nerf shield block. A block is BLOCKING. That means u don’t recieve damage. What’s this bs about reducing damage by 60%??
*the jury chat is an interesting one. Not sure a change is needed here, jury chat is interesting and barring names is silly.
*i Dont pvp and don’t like pkers buuuuut the change to the infamy system is too extreme. This is a game with pvp in it. Don’t want pvp? Avoid hostile zones then. Plus many friends purple each other for fun or practice and making it one kill to go to jail is dumb.
*Dont change dream ring or ayanad earring at all! It should be perm and not temp. Don’t nerf stats either.
*im not sure about faction statue changes, but I hope it’s not nerfed.
*keep the honor titles in the honor shop. Soldier, knight etc.
*others will have to determine if the potions and food have been nerfed or not. Some of it seems nerfed to me.
*why the change of spinal ridges and ink sacs?
*please don’t change how obsidian is made. Don’t nerf it and don’t take it out of the game. Obsidian needs to stay in this game as an option to people to use. Keep the mats needed for them. Keep t1+
*really? Regrade labor increase?
*is this when coral become useless? Can we keep some use for corals and keep them in game? What’s great about AA is variety of things and they keep being removed.
*dont nerf amount of charcoal obtained when turned in.
*dont get rid of faction chat. Was a stupid change and we all enjoy talking in faction.
*dont nerf guild member amount. 30-50 is so small
And again please please PLEASE carefully go over skill changes. So many are nerfed, many good ones are gone and some become useless. And some that migrate to other classes are unneeded.
*Dont decrease the amount of skill points we can obtain. If I remember right we get nerfed that way.
*Go over skill changes carefully. A lot of classes were nerfed with this change. Don’t change the passives in the classes. I found that many passives were utterly destroyed and many good ones gone.
*If you are going to change how the core stats work then you should aid those that did a hybrid build that made sense before 4.5. Example is melee using both agility and strength. Now agility is useless to them and I’m sure many use it. Don’t give this bull well u know this was coming bs because no one is gonna wait 2 years for their stats to make sense.
*Not sure about the armor cool down swap? Is it needed
*Dont nerf shield block. A block is BLOCKING. That means u don’t recieve damage. What’s this bs about reducing damage by 60%??
*the jury chat is an interesting one. Not sure a change is needed here, jury chat is interesting and barring names is silly.
*i Dont pvp and don’t like pkers buuuuut the change to the infamy system is too extreme. This is a game with pvp in it. Don’t want pvp? Avoid hostile zones then. Plus many friends purple each other for fun or practice and making it one kill to go to jail is dumb.
*Dont change dream ring or ayanad earring at all! It should be perm and not temp. Don’t nerf stats either.
*im not sure about faction statue changes, but I hope it’s not nerfed.
*keep the honor titles in the honor shop. Soldier, knight etc.
*others will have to determine if the potions and food have been nerfed or not. Some of it seems nerfed to me.
*why the change of spinal ridges and ink sacs?
*please don’t change how obsidian is made. Don’t nerf it and don’t take it out of the game. Obsidian needs to stay in this game as an option to people to use. Keep the mats needed for them. Keep t1+
*really? Regrade labor increase?
*is this when coral become useless? Can we keep some use for corals and keep them in game? What’s great about AA is variety of things and they keep being removed.
*dont nerf amount of charcoal obtained when turned in.
*dont get rid of faction chat. Was a stupid change and we all enjoy talking in faction.
*dont nerf guild member amount. 30-50 is so small
And again please please PLEASE carefully go over skill changes. So many are nerfed, many good ones are gone and some become useless. And some that migrate to other classes are unneeded.
No ETA as of right now
We will continue to update the game patches. We are not going to skip patches.
Abyssal skill removal is 5.0
Consider the weapon changes to be applied unless changed.
Defiance is not in any of 4.5s phases which our 4.5 will have them all together.
It comes in a sub patch after 4.5 to which we will update to separately. As the patch in question is not a large patch that mostly contains bug fixes and adjusts for a fresh start server It will not take too much time applying that patch before the pause for 5.0 unless we change the decision on leaving it separate from 4.5s 3 phases
Swiftblade is 6.0
I would like to inform you that any change in 4.5 good or bad you'll want to bring up.
Think of it as that it is the base 4.5 patch and custom content applied on top so if you don't discuss a change we make consider it something people do not have an issue with and it is applied.
Aviendha
Well-Known Member
The crime point increase is a terrible thing, considering the hours in jail I've seen people get sentenced to + the fact that in later patch piracy does not get decided by 3k infamy anymore.
All of the things I listed in my first post in this thread, combined, make sure the game ended up DEAD.
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Aviendha
Well-Known Member
All I've seen dragons do is wipe raids. That is no PvP, more like an evolution of a zerg. I don't believe it's comparible to other things that got added, because it's so insanely strong.
Aviendha
Well-Known Member
Hiram doesn't actually get close to obsi until later patches? And maybe there's people who don't want to grind all that stuff but use obsi rn?
As said before in the thread about hiram gear, the slow removal of obsi gear would remove an element of choice from the sandbox game.
Just as that this sandbox would get less sandbox with faction chat removed (community gets a LOT smaller), guild cap being decreased, crime points being increased so massively... There's just so many things that made this game enjoyable because of free choice, that 4.5 either removed or started removing. I say, no thank you.
RogueChoi
Active Member
Which is why I said if there's changes that rectify this that can balance them a bit better, if they truly are an issue, that I'd like that implemented but not gutted completely.
Obsidian gear was meant to be a halfway point between crafting and PVE content, now Hiram will fit that bill while offering more flexibility in stat layouts and not require ACTUAL regrading/breakage. Crafted armor still exists. Erenor is the endgame for crafted gear. Hiram is the new halfway point between crafted/farming with RNG involved, and later on, the dungeon Mistsong/Library sets become the new dungeon farmed armor route for non-customizable end'ish game viable gear. Obsidian had its time, there are plenty of other options for gear.
Also, hate to break it to ya, but T1 Hiram is slightly stronger base than T5 Obsidian (but T1 caps at Celestial, which means T5 Obsidian Divine from support pack is still slightly better.) T2 Hiram is Ayanad Equivalent, but max grade is Divine. If we want new players, whether new to Archeage or just new to server, Hiram is a much friendlier path for getting geared than even throwing them into a set of T5 Obsidian Divine. It gives them something they could possibly keep and they have to work for over time, but it doesn't throw them at level 55 and say 'lmao hope you can swipe for a million lucky points and fodders'. Times change, there always needs to be a carrot on the stick. For players like me, it's usually cosmetics, but sometimes its also in the form of higher gear tiers to work towards. I am using an Erenor club but I actually prefer the Hiram system for all the other slots. (I love my Erenor Club, but the regrading and crafting is a bit too much of a shitshow for me to do it for any other slot. Only my winged hammer was worth it)
havockitty
Active Member
Sad to tell this to you but t2 divine hiram is better than legendary t7 obsidian, hiram have better stats and effects. You know its not about me cuz i have gold and resources to remade all my gear but what about other people that cant ? Sorry boys and girls your gear is useless start over
?
Aviendha
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. Is a lot of text in this thread, I guess I missed that part. It's true that like most other things this could also be balanced.
In terms of raw dps hiram weapons won't be close to higher tier obsidian until epic (5.0), if I recall correctly hiram also can't be tempered until 5.0 as well so even if the t2 hiram is ayanad-equivalent technically speaking, it's really more like delph dps/defense-wise since it can't be tempered.
Where hiram bridges the gap is via the synthesis effects. In 4.5 it is hardly necessary to use much hiram outside of niche pieces if you have decent obsidian gear (even if hiram isn't even nerfed), but people will likely start swapping out niche items that have strong synthesis effects (ex: offhands for melees, right/left hand weps for archers, bows for non archers, flutes for some classes, etc)
I believe this is what the individual that quoted you was implying by this post:
The full-on swapping out the majority of your gear to hiram will be in 5.0 when epic comes out, not 4.5, you have plenty of time to farm and inform yourself of the new patches before obsidian becomes less desirable.
Comparing Divine Radiant T2 Hiram* vs Epic T6 Obsidian (pretty standard gear for people who have played a while and invested a bit): **
*Assuming Hiram is unnerfed and can't be tempered
**These are rough approximations using an archeage calculator and the figures may not be exactly correct
---
Mainhand Weapon discussion
Unnerfed Radiant T2 Hiram, even if it is unable to be tempered, could potentially be better than Epic T6 (in terms of mainhand weapon).
It is 14-15% less raw DPS, but offers a single (more effective main stat allocation) as well as a large amount of crit rate and crit bonus (which a lot of weapons don't).
However, in terms of a mainhand weapon, it is convincingly worse than current endgame gear (L T7 / L Erenor) simply due to the DPS gap.
However, as you can see, under our current erenor nerf: once epic t3 hiram mainhand hit (5.0), assuming they can be tempered, it trashes our current endgame setups. I would wager that this is what people who have invested a good amount into their characters via obsidian are really concerned about, not the Divine T2. If epic t3 can't be tempered, it'll probably still be a bit better than say legendary t7 or maybe even legendary erenor, but it'll at least level the playing field and allow people more time to adjust the the coming meta of t2 erenor and higher tiers of hiram.
My proposition is to not nerf hiram in 4.5, but do not allow hiram weapons to be tempered for the forseeable future (new patches), if you decide to allow hiram weapons to be tempered, you'll almost surely need to undo the erenor nerf.
Erenor nerf should be fine to keep until t3 comes out (5.0) if hiram tempering is released.
The stat changes and skill changes of this patch kind of have to go hand in hand, the scaling on almost every damage skill is altered in some way and it wouldn't quite make any sense for them to not make things uniform in this sense.
Is this something that is up to be altered or otherwise changed if there is a good deal of consensus that 4.5 is a relatively miserable patch combat-wise without at least some form of a CC break (in a patch that more or less guts CC breaks entirely), having a universal CC break that grants even just 1 second of immunity allows at least a little bit of counterplay.
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