Hazelnut
Member
Refer to post #332.
Anything 3.5 related
- Thread starter Sparkle
- Start date
Refer to post #332.
Forty
Member
Most active guild won't have an issue with the daily EXP requirement. That's why I haven't spoken about it myself and I don't totally disagree with the change. I do think the server has too many small meme guilds and dead/alt guilds that people sell to each other to surpass the earned "hard work" that everyone keeps mentioning. These dead/alt guilds should be de-leveled and removed from the top 20 ranking to allow upcoming guilds to have a chance to participate in sieges, even if it's just for the fun/experience of it. A daily loss of XP would be the best way to accomplish this.
I haven't been able to think of a better alternative that accomplishes de-leveling dead guilds that doesn't hurt small/casual active guilds.
However, please reconsider the following EXP requirement or adjust the amount of EXP being awarded for Guild Quests...
EAST/WEST DAILIES
And would cost roughly 27g for the Archeum dust for the 5 packs.
For East/West, it would take:
10 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1200 EXP guild level 6 requirement.
11 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1400 EXP guild level 7 requirement.
13 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1600 EXP guild level 8 requirement.
PIRATE DAILIES
And would cost roughly 8g for the Archeum dust for the 1 pack.
For pirate, it would take:
10 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1200 EXP guild level 6 requirement
12 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1400 EXP guild level 7 requirement.
14 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1600 EXP guild level 8 requirement.
PLAYER NATION DAILIES
And would cost roughly 45g for the Mysterious Garden Powder for the 1 pack--not many people bother with this pack because of the cost so PN's earning potential is more like 80 EXP for Boss & Bunker.
For player nation, it would take:
18 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1400 EXP guild level 7 requirement.
20 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1600 EXP guild level 8 requirement.
*Experia quest only gives prestige at the moment, you don't earn any guild EXP for completing this quest so most people don't bother with it unless they're leveling alternate skills to 55.
Potential from Experia per person to completed Guild Mission = between 20 EXP (no proc Sunflowers x4) and 125xp (top proc Pine x1)
As much as I don't want to whiteknight for Player Nation, I can see how it's possible to not meet the daily minimum as it stands, especially during a holiday.
I haven't been able to think of a better alternative that accomplishes de-leveling dead guilds that doesn't hurt small/casual active guilds.
However, please reconsider the following EXP requirement or adjust the amount of EXP being awarded for Guild Quests...
EAST/WEST DAILIES
- Guild Mission pack: 20xp
- Bunker/tower: 40xp
- World Boss: 40xp
- Experia*: 0xp
- Turning in all Diamond Shores Packs (3, 8, 12, 3, & 3xp) = 29xp
And would cost roughly 27g for the Archeum dust for the 5 packs.
For East/West, it would take:
10 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1200 EXP guild level 6 requirement.
11 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1400 EXP guild level 7 requirement.
13 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1600 EXP guild level 8 requirement.
PIRATE DAILIES
- Guild Mission pack: 20xp
- Bunker/tower: 40xp
- World Boss: 40xp
- Experia*: 0xp
- Turning in the one pack: 20xp
And would cost roughly 8g for the Archeum dust for the 1 pack.
For pirate, it would take:
10 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1200 EXP guild level 6 requirement
12 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1400 EXP guild level 7 requirement.
14 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1600 EXP guild level 8 requirement.
PLAYER NATION DAILIES
- Guild Mission Pack: 20xp
- Bunker/tower: 40xp
- World Boss: 40xp
- Experia*: 0xp
- Turning in the one pack: 20xp
And would cost roughly 45g for the Mysterious Garden Powder for the 1 pack--not many people bother with this pack because of the cost so PN's earning potential is more like 80 EXP for Boss & Bunker.
For player nation, it would take:
18 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1400 EXP guild level 7 requirement.
20 people doing all guild/pack dailies to complete the 1600 EXP guild level 8 requirement.
*Experia quest only gives prestige at the moment, you don't earn any guild EXP for completing this quest so most people don't bother with it unless they're leveling alternate skills to 55.
Potential from Experia per person to completed Guild Mission = between 20 EXP (no proc Sunflowers x4) and 125xp (top proc Pine x1)
As much as I don't want to whiteknight for Player Nation, I can see how it's possible to not meet the daily minimum as it stands, especially during a holiday.
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Noname_Shiro
Member
Well, that's exactly what i think but it's seems we're pretty alone.
People just keep crying for nothing much.
We want something but we don't want to lose anything for that... nice.
660k exp, so need 20k * 33 days to loose all exp.
You put that weekly, that make 20k * 33 weeks (7-8 month).
Basically, you guys just want to keep your privileges, stay on the top & monopolize content.
Well, that's a good mentality.
Don't make our server like live please and think well before posting dumb things, think to all players, not just yourself.
Hazelnut
Member
This change has no effect on me, I have thought in both perspectives, both players and devs. I'm trying to be the middleman so I'm trying to make suggestions that will solve both problems. I may be an exception compared to other people who have been posting on this, but I'm truly looking out for everyone. If changes are implemented where not everyone is happy, then it will drive people away. Let me know what you think about post #345.
Game systems may change, but this one hasn't. You want to talk about "not reconsidering changes based on the same few people complaining"? How about talking about how literally no one has made a single solitary fucking thread regarding this issue in the forums? Wake the fuck up and locate the irony in your post.
Oh, so missing one day instantly losing 2 weeks of effort is okay to you? That's where the line is drawn with thievery?
The system should be a buff they earn daily, not a buff that punishes you for having a life.
-If you save up 1000 Loyalty and miss one day of pressing the button to get 3 free Loyalty as a reward for being logged in, is it fair for the system to remove 42 Loyalty for every Loyalty Token button you didn't press?
-If you save up 1000 Gilda Stars and don't do the dailies that give you 7 Gilda Stars in your respective hub town, is it fair for the system to remove 98 Gilda Stars from your inventory?
-The most damning one: If you have 1000 contribution to the zone you're a resident in and you don't contribute 3 Resident Tokens towards the zone, is it fair for the system to remove 420 contribution from the overall total of every other resident in that zone as well as remove 42 tokens per person from the overall contribution to the zone?
I could keep going on and on with the analogies and comparisons but I'd be a broken record at this point. The fact of the matter is this change is something no one asked for, presented in a way no one asked for, and is asking for a change no one gave a shit about. If you want someone to contribute to a guild, they should be rewarded for logging on and doing the activity, not punished for not-logging on. If players want the buff and the benefits that come from the improved guild buff, it should be an added bonus that has to be unlocked, not a system that puts guilds and guild members through a razor-lined sieve.
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Noname_Shiro
Member
Well, that's mainly a interesting idea
But i still don't know if this exp lost it's really for these siege things or for other things like prestige shop or idk what.
Inactive guild make Guild ranking dirty, this thing of Top 20 exp guild it's interesting but, 50 players min it's kinda useless, you can make 6 (or more) chara on your account and make them come inside your guild.
These guild things are really hard to solve, watched from any side.
All solution i've found have at least 1 failling.
Noname_Shiro
Member
You guys should stop compare personnal reward & guild reward, it's the 2nd or 3rd time you does that, that's annoying.
Kozumii
Member
Broken record is 100% true, the fact that one person still thinks a guild is One-man Crew.
On a rank 6-8 guild if one person fails to log in there should still be 60+ members capable of loggin in and completing the needed EXP. If 20 people fail to log in, there’s still more than 50% members capable of loggin in and doing prestige.
I would like to know if it’s possible that Sparkle shared if any guild on the top 10 is not capable of keeping up with the changes. It seems she knew that The Privateers already completed the EXP required today, does that mean they have the info on all the other guilds? If so, which ones have also completed? If let’s say 9 have completed the 1.4k EXP on a workday (Monday) how is it possible they wouldn’t be able to keep completing it?
On a rank 6-8 guild if one person fails to log in there should still be 60+ members capable of loggin in and completing the needed EXP. If 20 people fail to log in, there’s still more than 50% members capable of loggin in and doing prestige.
I would like to know if it’s possible that Sparkle shared if any guild on the top 10 is not capable of keeping up with the changes. It seems she knew that The Privateers already completed the EXP required today, does that mean they have the info on all the other guilds? If so, which ones have also completed? If let’s say 9 have completed the 1.4k EXP on a workday (Monday) how is it possible they wouldn’t be able to keep completing it?
OKAY.
-If none of the members of your family contribute 300 XP a day to your Family, is it fair to lose 4200 Family XP per day?
-If you're working on a side project that has no deadline with 13 other people and one of you decides to not work on it for a day, is it fair for your repository/source control delete 2 weeks of your group's work?
-If your zone is about to flip to Level 3 half the residents don't contribute 3 Resident Tokens towards the zone, is it fair for the system to remove 14 contribution from the overall total of every other resident in that zone as well as remove 42 tokens per person from the overall contribution to the zone?
It's like a game of telephone/Chinese whispers. It's a simple task (whispering in an ear) that everyone can do, and yet more often than not the message gets messed up or misconstrued along the way, whether it be on purpose or on accident. Let's say 30 people are playing a game of telephone, and person 1 whispers to person 2 "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dogs". If the 30th person hears "The fat dumb ox tumbled down the stairs", all 30 people get punished for it. Does that seem fair?
Nullification should be the result of player inactivity, not punishment.
Hazelnut
Member
Just to clarify, the devs want the guild exp derank to ensure that alt guilds cannot be used in sieges, that was the only reason they want to implement the change.
havockitty
Active Member
You calling Lads and Adventure alt guilds. We decided use Risk once and that ended badly. If u are not aweare of what happen and who is bidding on what dont create your own story plz.
I totaly agree what Epic said, its easy and if you and your guild are unable to fufil such simple task daily you have serious problem there.
And if u want compare things in game to real life i got something from real life for you. No one care you work, no one care you have kids no one care you are ill or u are part of any religion and u want day off and If u ask me for day off u can look for another job and now stop complaining cuz what u do here u just complaing all the time that such easy task is to hard for you, pathetic. You just want log in 3 times a week for kraken or when someone call u on discord to greef someone on Word Boss and not rly play game ?
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Kozumii
Member
Another Solution?: Maybe a new Guild Ranking system, the leading guilds in the top should have the bonuses, instead of guilds in rank 6 - 7 - 8. But those that are in the top must be active weekly. 6 to 7k EXP requirement to stay in the top 10. That way only those who really try to achieve it, get it. Just don't make it so easy as 1.2k EXP per week.
Pros: Only the top 10 most active guilds will get the bonus
Cons: Guilds lower than top 10, are just there... being casual. But then again, those complaining mostly don't do much and don't even want to log in half the time.
@Flipsy im 100% done with your analogies. Your guild is rank 4 with 68 members currently, it will take you 2 to 6 months to reach rank 6, to be eligible or even complain about this issue. By the things you've said, your guild is not even active enough to reach rank 6 in 4 months.
The truth of the matter is that you or not even your guild is interested in reaching rank 6 or being active enough to reach top 20 in guild ratings. I've met people that have been on the server and pushed their guilds to rank 5+ in a couple of months because they wanted to be there, If you're in west you know about God Save the Queen or Winter, which bought a guild rank 5 and then pushed it towards rank 6 just to join the top 20 and be able to siege. This isn't a punishment for lower level guilds, it's a promise. If you work towards it, you'll get the rewards in the end, but you gotta keep it. Want an analogy? Top pvp contenders, gotta keep pvp'ing to stay at the top and at the end of the month get the ring, which btw will go away next month unless you keep it up.
Hazelnut
Member
One thing I agree with is that it is a perfectly reasonable expectation. One thing I don't agree with is the punishment. The problem with punishments implemented into games is that you start treating the game like work. I said this earlier but, if your character went down a level for each day you don't meet an xp requirement, most of the people will quit, and it's not because the requirement is too difficult, it's the fact that there is a requirement, which leads you to treating the game like work. I think a very good example are the really popular Twitch streamers, they used to play games for fun, but eventually they see it as a job, and they are no longer playing games for fun, they play to keep their ranking as a streamer. If a streamer stopped streaming for one week, they lose a massive amount of their viewer count, and it can't be helped. It would be a perfect world if twitch streamers never lost viewer count and were only rewarded with more viewers each time they stream. That's why we shouldn't have a punishment, because eventually it will start to take a toll on people. You know the guilds that die the fastest are the heavy content guilds, people in the guild are forced to go to every event possible or they get the boot. Eventually everyone from the guild leaves or quits. This implementation is relevant towards "forcing" people to do their guild dailies instead of letting people do them on free will.
Noname_Shiro
Member
Well, in my country, you have to paid tax if you want to have something where peacefully sleep.
You have either tax on consumings things like basic cereals or coffee.
But, these tax are made to make all people "happy" or at least, kinda equal.
In fact, it's anormal than nobody paid for keep their guild alive
.
If my family lost exp, idc, this family bonus is useless for a guy who didn't make tradepack like me.
If someone on my project doesnt work, i'll kick his ass off.
BUT it's depend which work is it. Some people can't be kicked off, when you create a game and you kicked one of pillar member of it, you have to mainly remake all the thing.
And for the last, people should contribute, it's gave gold, but that's optional.
Mainly, you guys are crying (Nuia side) cause you find that too complicate to exp daily/weekly your guild 1200/1400 exp.
I'm not gonna said again than you have some manage guild problem, i'm gonna gave you some proposal.
What about reduce time of some experia OR redure size of them for these land problem.
Else, you can reduce blue salt hammer price &/or memory ink prize.(gold problem)
Or, in the worst case, you can reduce labor cost for harvest an experia.
But these proposal gonna make it easy for little guild under lv 5 to progress until lv 5.
I'm a little tired to saw people monopolize faction chat cause they are not happy, i feel like i'm watching little kids in my garden.
Nuia is always the same q.q
You have either tax on consumings things like basic cereals or coffee.
But, these tax are made to make all people "happy" or at least, kinda equal.
In fact, it's anormal than nobody paid for keep their guild alive
.If my family lost exp, idc, this family bonus is useless for a guy who didn't make tradepack like me.
If someone on my project doesnt work, i'll kick his ass off.
BUT it's depend which work is it. Some people can't be kicked off, when you create a game and you kicked one of pillar member of it, you have to mainly remake all the thing.
And for the last, people should contribute, it's gave gold, but that's optional.
Mainly, you guys are crying (Nuia side) cause you find that too complicate to exp daily/weekly your guild 1200/1400 exp.
I'm not gonna said again than you have some manage guild problem, i'm gonna gave you some proposal.
What about reduce time of some experia OR redure size of them for these land problem.
Else, you can reduce blue salt hammer price &/or memory ink prize.(gold problem)
Or, in the worst case, you can reduce labor cost for harvest an experia.
But these proposal gonna make it easy for little guild under lv 5 to progress until lv 5.
I'm a little tired to saw people monopolize faction chat cause they are not happy, i feel like i'm watching little kids in my garden.
Nuia is always the same q.q
Kozumii
Member
Hey, at least I bring solutions and try to think. Have you done any recently? Try it sometime <3
havockitty
Active Member
Solution: Play Game
Hazelnut
Member
I would classify this more as a reward based system, the more you pvp, the higher your ranking goes. Something more comparable would be losing pvp ranking for not pvping one day even though you may have a 100% win rate.
The guilds that are talking about it that have enough members to do this "safely" don't necessarily want to recruit everyone with a pulse. You want to know why people like us are complaining? Because we recruit like-minded individuals who may be in a situation like ours. We pick and choose who we want to join our guild, because we treat our guild like a family. We want people with our mindset, whether it be casual or otherwise. My guild is active 5 days out of the week, and if we had made it to guild level 6+, this system would have wasted all of our efforts by knocking us down because the majority of us are busy on weekends or had real-life emergencies pop up. The only work-around with this system is to mass recruit like all of the name-less and face-less prestige-farming guilds that already fill the server's ranks by just existing and doing nothing with it, but why would I want to recruit every swinging dick in my faction without knowing I'd pick up some trashy human being with a mentality like yours?
Fuck you and your assumption for thinking my guild isn't interested in reaching rank 6. You want me to go tell my guild members to go UA, quit their jobs, ignore their families, and abort their unborn kid for a video game? How fucking DARE you assume my busy guild members don't have the drive to do something. You can be done with my analogies all you want, but at least I'm contributing something to the argument from the viewpoint of a person who isn't even affected by this because I'm contributing from the viewpoint that I can see how it can affect me, instead of contributing from way up high on my horse like you.