DrRageQuit
Well-Known Member
Just so i understand, the range calculation thing on tigerstrike: if someone backdrop/teleports out of the path of the tigerstrike will it miss?
ArcheRage 4.0 Discussion
- Thread starter Sparkle
- Start date
Just so i understand, the range calculation thing on tigerstrike: if someone backdrop/teleports out of the path of the tigerstrike will it miss?
Zing™
Active Member
This is a good thing. Not saying all those patches ahead are perfect (far from it) but they contain so many QOL updates and things that make the game less painful that we'd only be hurting ourselves not implementing them. Still, 4.0 first!
In theory yes, but not "miss". Rather, it will stop casting. In practice, no.
The problem with this game is that movement based anything (teleportation, backdrops, gliding, regular walking) have severe delays (upwards of 500ms or more) for being broadcast to other players.
Ever notice how if you have an ally on the back of your mount, when you desummon it, the ally ends up 10-15 meters behind where you actually desummoned the mount? That is because the desummon is broadcast instantly, but the actual movement is still being broadcast. The desummon ends up cancelling the movement that has still yet to be broadcast to that ally character from the server. The movement system in this game is quite old and messed up. And unfortunately as a result, ontop of everything else, it gives a MASSIVE advantage to the already overpowered melee players (half a second or more, which in this game is a large span of time).
Combat, on the other hand, has near instant broadcast. So what ends up happening for you, the victim of a battlerage player is, even though you are far away on your screen from them, they still see you close, and for some reason, so does the server, so they still end up hitting you with skills.
I don't know if you've ever noticed, but when someone hits you with Charge or BEL from BR, even if they cast it AFTER you teleport away, you still get hit, and thus snared, despite being 20+ meters away from your attacker. That is because those movement skills are not broadcast at the same rate.
So the working theory is that lightning tigerstrike will now stop casting if the target moves away. The problem is, the distance required to move is still vast, and even supposing you could cover that distance in time, the game takes forever to broadcast that movement. So effectively, this "nerf" is near pointless, and does nothing to cull the severe imbalance this skill brought to the already imbalanced battlerage tree.
From what I remember, this game is nearly 100% client-authoritative, so the server is last to know when something happens. Some actions override it (like mount desummoning as you've mentioned), but certain information, movement, and player location is something that doesn't. This also explains why someone with Battlerage can use BEL and while on their screen the hammer animation has already landed, on the screens of others the animation is barely halfway-complete and the attacker can chain the trip in before the hammer lands.
Aviend that buff only gives +1300hp and 4-5% pve dmg reduction. So we lose spellboks, phys def pots, runes, wich is the only thing actually keeping a healer alive.
New gem system forces us to drop defense aswell from hood and shoes plus increases even more darkrunners def pen. We will be oneshots
New gem system forces us to drop defense aswell from hood and shoes plus increases even more darkrunners def pen. We will be oneshots
This is honestly ridiculous and unnecessary. People spent considerable time, gold, labor, etc, crafting these things and you are basically just going to take it away and replace it with crap? I would love to hear the justification for this. Just not a smart move. I can understand if you want to discontinue an item, but you don't take away what a person has worked for. This needs to be undone. There is zero benefit to the player.
Not only that, it was planned people keeps a stock till 4.5 comes so they can get used to new system till later patches fixes the damage reductions and skill damage/combos
People spent a large amount of time complaining about the individuals who were stockpiling these items. The fear was that people will be able to upcharge for buffs and get rich. So naturally, people complained. I think that it got out of hand enough to the point where the admins decided to prevent that from happening. It sucks too, because honestly, if people planned and took advantage of things instead of complaining, the buffs would be plentiful for a long time to come. XLGames knowingly left the items in the game, and they announced the removal of the ability to craft them long before the actual patch release....
People just don't want to put in any kind of effort and would rather complain about the effort that others put in.
People just don't want to put in any kind of effort and would rather complain about the effort that others put in.
If that is the case, it is really sad that anyone would coddle lazy players like that. I know my girlfriend and I have crafted a huge amount of potions but this goes back quite a ways. We crafted them for ourselves and to share with our guild. We don't sell them. People don't want to work for anything and this just enables that kind of player. If they didn't plan ahead then it should be a case of too bad for them.
Big mistake by the staff.
Yes and yes.
Kezz
Active Member
XL didn't leave them in the game. It was a special request by Trion that they leave them in the game for their servers only.
Cause of Korean everyone plays with tanky builds while EU/NA everyone plays archeage similar to an FPS and going for the oneshots.
It was needed for those servers.
Pagemaster93
Member
I dont think that PN should be limited in their numbers, i dont think PN is something that should go away at all, a lot of people may not like the idea of the strongest people in server banding together and denying content, but PN puts in the work, they pay to be PN and keep the game mildly balanced in terms of PvP, reducing PNs numbers and eventually getting rid of them would be an overall bad move for the server health IMO and its something you guys shouldnt touch i believe,
also as a Mage i believe that Wave Meteor doesnt need as hard of a nerf as its getting, considering the cast/channel time its supposed to do loads of damage, and if youre in raid pvp which is where you get to use it the most if there are more than 3 people in that AOE your chances of acutally killing people is very low because the damage is so spread out, and reducing the Magic attack by half of what it is now seems outlandish, if it gets a nerf at all i dont think it should be more than a drop of 100% scaling down to 400% and still increase the base damage, i dont know the exact math of what should happen, i just know that 250% scaling is waaaay to low
also it says im a new member but its just because i dont post to the forum a lot, been around for more than a year
also as a Mage i believe that Wave Meteor doesnt need as hard of a nerf as its getting, considering the cast/channel time its supposed to do loads of damage, and if youre in raid pvp which is where you get to use it the most if there are more than 3 people in that AOE your chances of acutally killing people is very low because the damage is so spread out, and reducing the Magic attack by half of what it is now seems outlandish, if it gets a nerf at all i dont think it should be more than a drop of 100% scaling down to 400% and still increase the base damage, i dont know the exact math of what should happen, i just know that 250% scaling is waaaay to low
also it says im a new member but its just because i dont post to the forum a lot, been around for more than a year
Hny
Member
@Pagemaster93 there was literally a whole thread about PN and why they need a change and I don‘t remember seeing your name or those who liked your reply in there at all. You had enough time to voice your concerns on it, but you‘re doing it now after the 4.0 updates dropped. So no, keep the changes as it is. People didn‘t fight for them just to be reverted back to normal.
Pagemaster93
Member
@Sparkle
Can we please address this? I've mentioned it a few times already, but haven't seen a response. Sorcery needs to stop getting nerfed into the dirt while battlerage continues to rise. The server's population is already 10:1 battlerage, with darkrunners making up the vast majority of the DPS population. The level of cheese and overpowered abilities combined with the simplicity of stacking critical melee damage needs to stop.
Lightning tigerstrike needs an additional damage nerf due to the ease of use and how broken the skill is, and wave meteor needs to be left alone, or, if any nerf at all, a maximum of a 100% multiplier down to 400%, due to all of the negatives that come along with trying to use that skill.
Skills are following the basic 4.0 changes and are not customly changed. If you have any concerns about the exact skill, you can put it for the general discussion after 4.0 release, when player already have a chance to test the changes of the game version.
Edit:
Let's actually do some math on defense penetration for melee classes:
Puncture Passive Skill: 2000 Defense Penetration
Lightning Necklace: 750 Defense Penetration
Gale Ring: 400 Defense Penetration
Combat Scroll: Defense Penetration : 700 Defense Penetration
Holy Ini's ring / Flawless Dream Ring: 700/1000 Defense Penetration
Costume Defense Penetration: 750
Undergarments Defense Penetration: 500
2H Weapon Buff (50% rate to reduce shield's defense by 50%, average good shields range from 4-5000 Defense, statistically it's basically 1000/1250 Def pen on every hit)
Soulbound Blades abyssal from battlerage: -50 x 10 stacks (4.0 they get even boosted) Roughly 500 Defenese Penetration
Now let's look at a endgame healer setup with a legendary t7 Shield:
Total Defense: 12350. (http://prntscr.com/pkqhln)
In my situation, just to be able to fit in 4.0 patch and use new gems (wich according to devs are compensating buffs removal)
i need to get rid of 400 Defense in boots and 300 in my hood, only cause i have some hero gems for toughness, otherwise it would have been way more.
So 12350 -> 11650 and this is yet without anyone debuffing me.
Let's start counting in defense from the list above:
2000 + 750 + 400 + 700 + 700(1000) + 750 + 500 + 1000 (1250) + 500
Considering Minimal stats for a non perfect build (we're talking about high geared players): 11650 - 7300 = 4350 Defense left (http://prntscr.com/pkqlc2)
Or Maximal stats for good build (counting in same-gear pvp) 11650 - 7850 = 4070 Defense left (http://prntscr.com/pkqm6o)
Basically with the removal of runes we're giving up to 7% (and more for healers) dmg reduction from runes, to 2k defense wich will be roughly 8-9% dmg reduction ( Compare this http://prntscr.com/pkqmtd with previous 2 screens) and we'll soak in 28% damage due to the insane defense penetration reductions, wich are already partially ingame and on everyone's build.
Healers and tanks are already non-existing in this server, we have possibly 2 in the whole faction with more than 5k gearscore and they are more than far from reaching the defense amounts i talked about, cause that's what a 8.4k gearscore healer with a shield has. Imagine what will happen to 6k Healers against same gear darkrunners.
Defensive buffs removal is just gonna throw healers and tanks into trash bins. This is not SAO where everyone is forced to be melee class, can we please have a chance to play decently our classes?
Assorted Ribs will just soak in 2 buffs (Jujube juices and Spellbook) while the actual assorted ribs effect gets removed anyway (+60 stat).. it's not gonna include a lot of buffs, just two, and the damage reduction is PvE only.
Edit: In Live release they actually set a new buff item give out thru daily tracker, that one would give us runes buffs, defense potion, spellbook and such.
Could we have a custom buff item or something similar?
We're gonna have loads of ribs on the auctions, legit crafting is gonna be useless because of the ribs are not even gonna be that good.
Could we have the ribs reworked to a custom buff including a lesser version of the runes effect on damage conversion + some lesser defense boost?
Like.. damage reduction will be 4% on PvE from normal ribs, can we have it to add also 4% dmg conversion to HP? and like 800 Defense?
That would prevent anyone from stacking up materials while letting everyone adapt to the new system, as it's impossible new/poorer players to fix their gear with gems, as they don't have good gear to gem yet.
Fair and balanced, and consumption of those buffs whould be so high to rebalance the market.
Let's actually do some math on defense penetration for melee classes:
Puncture Passive Skill: 2000 Defense Penetration
Lightning Necklace: 750 Defense Penetration
Gale Ring: 400 Defense Penetration
Combat Scroll: Defense Penetration : 700 Defense Penetration
Holy Ini's ring / Flawless Dream Ring: 700/1000 Defense Penetration
Costume Defense Penetration: 750
Undergarments Defense Penetration: 500
2H Weapon Buff (50% rate to reduce shield's defense by 50%, average good shields range from 4-5000 Defense, statistically it's basically 1000/1250 Def pen on every hit)
Soulbound Blades abyssal from battlerage: -50 x 10 stacks (4.0 they get even boosted) Roughly 500 Defenese Penetration
Now let's look at a endgame healer setup with a legendary t7 Shield:
Total Defense: 12350. (http://prntscr.com/pkqhln)
In my situation, just to be able to fit in 4.0 patch and use new gems (wich according to devs are compensating buffs removal)
i need to get rid of 400 Defense in boots and 300 in my hood, only cause i have some hero gems for toughness, otherwise it would have been way more.
So 12350 -> 11650 and this is yet without anyone debuffing me.
Let's start counting in defense from the list above:
2000 + 750 + 400 + 700 + 700(1000) + 750 + 500 + 1000 (1250) + 500
Considering Minimal stats for a non perfect build (we're talking about high geared players): 11650 - 7300 = 4350 Defense left (http://prntscr.com/pkqlc2)
Or Maximal stats for good build (counting in same-gear pvp) 11650 - 7850 = 4070 Defense left (http://prntscr.com/pkqm6o)
Basically with the removal of runes we're giving up to 7% (and more for healers) dmg reduction from runes, to 2k defense wich will be roughly 8-9% dmg reduction ( Compare this http://prntscr.com/pkqmtd with previous 2 screens) and we'll soak in 28% damage due to the insane defense penetration reductions, wich are already partially ingame and on everyone's build.
Healers and tanks are already non-existing in this server, we have possibly 2 in the whole faction with more than 5k gearscore and they are more than far from reaching the defense amounts i talked about, cause that's what a 8.4k gearscore healer with a shield has. Imagine what will happen to 6k Healers against same gear darkrunners.
Defensive buffs removal is just gonna throw healers and tanks into trash bins. This is not SAO where everyone is forced to be melee class, can we please have a chance to play decently our classes?
Assorted Ribs will just soak in 2 buffs (Jujube juices and Spellbook) while the actual assorted ribs effect gets removed anyway (+60 stat).. it's not gonna include a lot of buffs, just two, and the damage reduction is PvE only.
Edit: In Live release they actually set a new buff item give out thru daily tracker, that one would give us runes buffs, defense potion, spellbook and such.
Could we have a custom buff item or something similar?
We're gonna have loads of ribs on the auctions, legit crafting is gonna be useless because of the ribs are not even gonna be that good.
Could we have the ribs reworked to a custom buff including a lesser version of the runes effect on damage conversion + some lesser defense boost?
Like.. damage reduction will be 4% on PvE from normal ribs, can we have it to add also 4% dmg conversion to HP? and like 800 Defense?
That would prevent anyone from stacking up materials while letting everyone adapt to the new system, as it's impossible new/poorer players to fix their gear with gems, as they don't have good gear to gem yet.
Fair and balanced, and consumption of those buffs whould be so high to rebalance the market.
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