Ravenspine Fix Gone Bad

[Valachi]

It is In fact so fast that people are immune before the animation even shows them even on top of the mount. If you really think no one is using macros then you are ignorant or stupid.

Droth if I recall correctly, you're one of the people that would spawn a mount and be invincible before you even get on it. You're literally STILL climbing the mount, but invincible.

I actually can't tell if you're both trolling or being serious, but just in case y'all both ill-informed watch this video break down how net-code works. This is simply boils down to lag and nothing more. To me, it looks like AA prioritizes certain packets of information and since AA's net-code sucks (there is no real reason for to be good to begin with considering it isn't a first person shooter) it can cause some de-sync between skills being "active" and animations being displayed. Mount (and Glider for that matter) animations and skills aren't linked, unlike how mage and archer skills are (See this Reddit comment for a more in depth explanation), which can and will cause a de-sync between when skills are active and when animations are shown to a 2nd party.

If anyone with high ping was to Spawn->Jump on their Mount->Use invince dash and record it from their perspective, it would look completely normal. What you are experiencing is simply the de-sync cause by AA's poor net-code, not macros.

Please stop making up mundane and poorly thought out reasons to try to get fundamental mechanics of the game changed just because you feel like people are using macros. (Which is a ridiculous accusation to begin with because macroing mount and glider skills will screw you over more often than not.)

 

[Thinking]

Making the Ravenspine Wings' invincibility effect an active skill is definitely not a good thing under the assumption that damage will not close the glider. This essentially makes the Ravenspine Wings better than the Ezi Glider (a cheap, non-rotational, non-p2w item) in every way imaginable. I will concur that currently Ravenspine Wings are definitely better than the Ezi Glider, but there is still at least an argument as to why someone would use an Ezi Glider...

Either keep the Ravenspine Wings as is, or force them to close upon receiving damage.

Lol are you serious dude every single pn 1 member is using macros for mounts and gliders. Kezz is right there should be a 2 second global cooldown on gliders and mounts between summoning and using any ability.

[/QUOTE]
Generalization much...

I'm definitely a macroer when I'm playing on 40 ping vs your 100+ due to the nature of the game, the low ping player will usually have an advantage in almost all forms of combat. Despite this, I still get shot down out of my Ezi Glider before I become immune all the time.

There is really no need to macro gliders and mounts, and to reiterate what someone said on this thread earlier: doing so would probably be more counterproductive than anything. Maybe you've never heard of this outlandish idea of binding your glider to the same key as its ability.

So yeah, let's just remove a major part of reactive gameplay in the open world setting. 2 second GCD upon opening glider or mounting... You can't be serious.

In later patches (4.5 I believe) an invincibility cooldown was introduced that kept players from chaining multitudes of "immune" effects in a repeated succession.
Ex: Upon using immune mount dash your character got a 45-second "invincibility cooldown" in which you couldn't benefit from a similar or different type of immune effect. - Forgive me if my numbers are off, just trying to communicate the general idea

Personally, I wasn't really thrilled by the aforementioned change but it was certainly much more preferable than implementing a 2 second GCD that would dramatically slow down PvP encounters and ultimately decrease the potential for counterplay. At the very minimum it addressed an actual issue: the overabundance of immune and get-out-of-jail-free effects. In comparison, this GCD solution is rooted in people's frustration regarding ping (sorry but sucks to suck...) and/or a lack of willingness to practice a.k.a. skill.

 

[Trasher]

Sorry, but this is a nonsense. Threads back, ppl was complaining about ravenspine too and ask gms/developers to make this an active skill instead of pasive. They listened to what u proposed.
Even with ppl macro´ing or low ping, make that an active is still a nerf, so deal with it.

Is too funny to see that kind of thears when the ppl commenting is the one that have that kind of glide (defensors) and the one against that glider gonna buy it without any hesitation on their first opportunity.

Anyways, as a contribution, as Kezz said, u cant directly close on the launch any magihopter, that is why they get a 50% more damage and a reduction of evasion, block and parry. So, if u hit it before macro/ low ping spam of the active, u gonna kill the one using the glider because he gonna be almost dead in the moment he is using the glider.

 

[trapwhre02]

^ You have 0 clue what you are talking about. Timeframe for you to one-shot a person using future ravenspine is less than 100ms. Good luck timing your shots.

I have one myself, using it regularly and if it was possible, I'd want it removed from the game as a whole.

 

[Kezz]

This man just said I macro LMAO

Let's all take a moment to appreciate this mans hardcore commitment. Thank you for your comment and immense knowledge. I think this is just what we need to fix the problem.

I actually can't tell if you're both trolling or being serious,

Thank you for not including the part of the quote where I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure you are correct, but if you don't think macros have anything to do with it then you're either very new to AA or you're just lying. I've played since launch, I've been in almost all the major PNs. I can easily say more people macro than people that don't. And it wouldn't be "lag" it would be ping. Unfortunately, despite any of the possibilities, there is a problem with the Ravenspine and were here to fix it. Not defend it.

There is really no need to macro gliders and mounts, and to reiterate what someone said on this thread earlier: doing so would probably be more counterproductive than anything. Maybe you've never heard of this outlandish idea of binding your glider to the same key as its ability.

There's absolutely no logic in this. You can smash your skill key to deploy your Ravenspine as fast as possible, and wont get you out of most CC situations. If you macro it, you'll have nearly a 100% success rate of deploying your glider during CC's and easily escape. If you can press the skill before it's even available to be pressed? Then it's STILL clearly broken. If you truly believe what you just said, then you haven't done your own testing, or you just want the glider and you're defending it because you like the idea of cheesing out of fights.

In later patches (4.5 I believe) an invincibility cooldown was introduced that kept players from chaining multitudes of "immune" effects in a repeated succession.

You are correct. Unfortunately this isn't "later patches" and were trying to fix the situation now.

^ You have 0 clue what you are talking about. Timeframe for you to one-shot a person using future ravenspine is less than 100ms. Good luck timing your shots.

I have one myself, using it regularly and if it was possible, I'd want it removed from the game as a whole.

Exactly. This is accurate. This is why we need a fix. This destroys any opposing comment towards this fix. It needs to be fixed, so deal with the fix.

 

[Kezz]

Anyways, as a contribution, as Kezz said, u cant directly close on the launch any magihopter, that is why they get a 50% more damage and a reduction of evasion, block and parry. So, if u hit it before macro/ low ping spam of the active, u gonna kill the one using the glider because he gonna be almost dead in the moment he is using the glider.

This is true KIND of. You're only going to get that hit off if the glider invincibility is already on cooldown. For example:

 

[Valachi]

Thank you for not including the part of the quote where I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure you are correct, but if you don't think macros have anything to do with it then you're either very new to AA or you're just lying. I've played since launch, I've been in almost all the major PNs. I can easily say more people macro than people that don't. And it wouldn't be "lag" it would be ping. Unfortunately, despite any of the possibilities, there is a problem with the Ravenspine and were here to fix it. Not defend it.

Benefit of the doubt or not, you still accused him using macros. Just because you tried to soften your words by "giving him the benefit of the doubt" the accusation is still there and is pretty severe considering, based on this forum post (which was last edited by a moderator on Sep 19, 2019), it is in fact a bannable offense. Also, just for clarification, I've been playing AA on and off since launch, back in 2014, just like probably 90% of the current AR player base. I have currently been playing AR for close to a year and have been in Pending Collapse since January 2019. I don't think you realized this, but attacking me directly, saying I'm "new or lying", really hurts your argument and makes you look more like a disgruntled toddler than a concerned player. Take that for what it's worth.

Furthermore, I am not denying that people macro. I know there are a lot DRs that marcro shrug/thwart/bondbreaker and honestly, I don't care. If you want to dumb down your AR experience and can't handle pressing 3 more buttons, then that's your prerogative. I am arguing, however, people simply do not macro mount and glider skills, it's just not advantageous. More often than not, macroing those skills will screw you over. You can accomplish something far better by just using the same or similar key binds to summon or use the mount/glider and the skill. For example, to equip/open my GoW glider I use Shift + Scroll Wheel Down, which matches the glider skill to drop back. Another example is how I use my iceneer mount. To summon my iceneer, I use a mouse key and to mount and use invince I use G and Shift + G, respectively. By the time my character is trying to mount my iceneer, I am already spamming my invince skill, which can lead to that desync I discussed in my previous comment.

Also, while ping and lag can be used interchangeably, the reader must be able infer that you mean high ping, not just ping. If you really want to get into semantics, lag is the more correct and proper term here as lag is the consequence of high latency which is measured as a high ping and ping is simply a tool to quantitatively measure latency in milliseconds.

Regardless of above, your whole original argument is based around players macroing glider and mount skills. I refute that as it is simply just not as advantageous as you claim it is. You (the royal you here, I'm talking about other forum posters that asked for a change to Ravenspine that led to this change) already tried to "fix it" and yet are still unhappy and are complaining about it. Now, here you are trying to change the fundamental mechanics of ArcheAge, based on egregious claims where your "proof" is lackluster at best. I don't expect you change your mind about implementing a GCD to gliders and mounts, in fact I am pretty sure you are not going to back down, but I do hope you can see what's wrong with your argument.

Honestly, if it was up to me, I wouldn't make any changes. Ravenspines (and gliders/mounts for that matter) are fine as they are now, they aren't "Get Out Of Jail Free" cards as everyone seems to suggest. They are all easily counterable with a multitude of skills and items (mirrors light, lasso, rd glider, rocket glider, tk, tk belt, and plenty more) and can easily be played around.

I suggest that you go back to the drawing board on this one.

 

[Kezz]

Benefit of the doubt or not, you still accused him using macros. Just because you tried to soften your words by "giving him the benefit of the doubt" the accusation is still there and is pretty severe considering, based on this forum post (which was last edited by a moderator on Sep 19, 2019), it is in fact a bannable offense. Also, just for clarification, I've been playing AA on and off since launch, back in 2014, just like probably 90% of the current AR player base. I have currently been playing AR for close to a year and have been in Pending Collapse since January 2019. I don't think you realized this, but attacking me directly, saying I'm "new or lying", really hurts your argument and makes you look more like a disgruntled toddler than a concerned player. Take that for what it's worth.

Furthermore, I am not denying that people macro. I know there are a lot DRs that marcro shrug/thwart/bondbreaker and honestly, I don't care. If you want to dumb down your AR experience and can't handle pressing 3 more buttons, then that's your prerogative. I am arguing, however, people simply do not macro mount and glider skills, it's just not advantageous. More often than not, macroing those skills will screw you over. You can accomplish something far better by just using the same or similar key binds to summon or use the mount/glider and the skill. For example, to equip/open my GoW glider I use Shift + Scroll Wheel Down, which matches the glider skill to drop back. Another example is how I use my iceneer mount. To summon my iceneer, I use a mouse key and to mount and use invince I use G and Shift + G, respectively. By the time my character is trying to mount my iceneer, I am already spamming my invince skill, which can lead to that desync I discussed in my previous comment.

Also, while ping and lag can be used interchangeably, the reader must be able infer that you mean high ping, not just ping. If you really want to get into semantics, lag is the more correct and proper term here as lag is the consequence of high latency which is measured as a high ping and ping is simply a tool to quantitatively measure latency in milliseconds.

Regardless of above, your whole original argument is based around players macroing glider and mount skills. I refute that as it is simply just not as advantageous as you claim it is. You (the royal you here, I'm talking about other forum posters that asked for a change to Ravenspine that led to this change) already tried to "fix it" and yet are still unhappy and are complaining about it. Now, here you are trying to change the fundamental mechanics of ArcheAge, based on egregious claims where your "proof" is lackluster at best. I don't expect you change your mind about implementing a GCD to gliders and mounts, in fact I am pretty sure you are not going to back down, but I do hope you can see what's wrong with your argument.

Honestly, if it was up to me, I wouldn't make any changes. Ravenspines (and gliders/mounts for that matter) are fine as they are now, they aren't "Get Out Of Jail Free" cards as everyone seems to suggest. They are all easily counterable with a multitude of skills and items (mirrors light, lasso, rd glider, rocket glider, tk, tk belt, and plenty more) and can easily be played around.

I suggest that you go back to the drawing board on this one.

I appreciate your opinion about MY thoughts towards what I assumed, but it has nothing to do with this thread and is irrelevant entirely. Thank you for thinking for me though. Don't shut down another thread by arguing pointless nonsense that holds absolutely no value.

I don't need to defend this much because people have already made it very clear that the Ravenspine needed a nerf. I'm just making the AR team aware that their change wont help.

Thanks for spending so much time writing all of that though.

 

[Valachi]

I appreciate your opinion about MY thoughts towards what I assumed, but it has nothing to do with this thread and is irrelevant entirely.

You're right, it doesn't have anything to do with this thread. Except, you're the one that brought it up and made the accusation in the first place. Now that I think about it, all this thread has been is assumptions from you. You assumed that all of PN macros, you assumed Droth macros, and you assumed you understood how core ArcheAge mechanics work.

Thank you for thinking for me though. Don't shut down another thread by arguing pointless nonsense that holds absolutely no value.

Any time! I'm just here to call you out on your BS, because your "fix" is abhorrent and will fundamentally destroy what I love about this game, low or no GCDs.

You've attempted discredit me by arguing you're a more experienced player and assuming that I was "...very new or lying", you've attempted to discredit my arguement by (incorrectly) correcting me on the usage of lag vs ping, and you've attempted to shut down any counterpoint by calling it illogical and assuming no one has done their research. Yet, I am the one "arguing pointless nonsense that holds absolutely no value" because I'm calling you out.

You're attempting to dumb the game down and destroy core game mechanics soley based off of your assumptions. You refuse to think critically and can only see the argument from one perspective, which is very disappointing and I will continue call you out on it.

I don't need to defend this much because people have already made it very clear that the Ravenspine needed a nerf.

You don't need to defend your stance because other players have made a similar case? What? That's not how precedence works and I hope you're not a Public Defender. Either way, nerfing Ravenspine is only a small component of what this thread is about. Do you not remember your own post?

Can we increase the global cooldown for gliders? And while were at it... increase the global cooldown for mounts? The macros for these things are insane. People are invincible before they even get on a mount. The same will happen with the new Ravenspine Wings. We need some sort of delay between the "spawn" and the "skill use". Otherwise the macro will take care of it.

Do you still not see the problem here?

You're proposing to nerf ALL gliders and ALL mounts based on misconceptions simply because you (and a very vocal minority) have deemed Ravenspines and Invulnerability mounts to be overpowered. That's a pretty big false equivalence.

If this change went through, I am willing to bet that there would be more players on the forums complaining that they don't even get a chance to escape from being ganked than current amount of players complaining about Ravenspines. At least with the current system, a 4k gs will still have a chance of survival when being ganked by a 5 or 6k gs. If this change was to go through, it would mean certain death for them. Are you starting to see the repercussions of a change like that?

I'm just making the AR team aware that their change wont help.

At least that's one thing we can agree on. The proposed change by the AR devs is unnecessary.

Thanks for spending so much time writing all of that though.

No problem! I love spending 20 minutes calling people out on their BS in the morning. It's very cathartic and goes good with my coffee.

Remember, it's okay to be wrong.

 

[Shanks]

i think ur just mad because ur losing
oh and thanks for buffing player nation only gliders sparkle

 

[Kezz]

i think ur just mad because ur losing
oh and thanks for buffing player nation only gliders sparkle

I'm actually winning despite the ravenspine. OH and I have one too. It helps a lot. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed. In case you forgot, I have a full legendary buff and a 2H legendary erenor. I would easily be rank 4 or 5 in the top 100 if i was dual wield. Not to mention top 5 ranking in sparring when I feel like doing it. Nice try though.

 

[Kezz]

You're right, it doesn't have anything to do with this thread. Except, you're the one that brought it up and made the accusation in the first place. Now that I think about it, all this thread has been is assumptions from you. You assumed that all of PN macros, you assumed Droth macros, and you assumed you understood how core ArcheAge mechanics work.



Any time! I'm just here to call you out on your BS, because your "fix" is abhorrent and will fundamentally destroy what I love about this game, low or no GCDs.

You've attempted discredit me by arguing you're a more experienced player and assuming that I was "...very new or lying", you've attempted to discredit my arguement by (incorrectly) correcting me on the usage of lag vs ping, and you've attempted to shut down any counterpoint by calling it illogical and assuming no one has done their research. Yet, I am the one "arguing pointless nonsense that holds absolutely no value" because I'm calling you out.

You're attempting to dumb the game down and destroy core game mechanics soley based off of your assumptions. You refuse to think critically and can only see the argument from one perspective, which is very disappointing and I will continue call you out on it.



You don't need to defend your stance because other players have made a similar case? What? That's not how precedence works and I hope you're not a Public Defender. Either way, nerfing Ravenspine is only a small component of what this thread is about. Do you not remember your own post?



Do you still not see the problem here?

You're proposing to nerf ALL gliders and ALL mounts based on misconceptions simply because you (and a very vocal minority) have deemed Ravenspines and Invulnerability mounts to be overpowered. That's a pretty big false equivalence.

If this change went through, I am willing to bet that there would be more players on the forums complaining that they don't even get a chance to escape from being ganked than current amount of players complaining about Ravenspines. At least with the current system, a 4k gs will still have a chance of survival when being ganked by a 5 or 6k gs. If this change was to go through, it would mean certain death for them. Are you starting to see the repercussions of a change like that?



At least that's one thing we can agree on. The proposed change by the AR devs is unnecessary.



No problem! I love spending 20 minutes calling people out on their BS in the morning. It's very cathartic and goes good with my coffee.

Remember, it's okay to be wrong.

I literally read none of that. I noticed it held absolutely no value and you're just trash talking now. LOL HAVE FUN THOUGH. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.

 

[Valachi]

I literally read none of that. I noticed it held absolutely no value and you're just trash talking now.

Okay bud, you either read it or you didn't. Make up your mind. How exactly am I trash talking? Do you consider any opposition trash talk? This section is called game debates for a reason and as far as I'm concerned, I've been pretty respectful and been trying to have a civil discussion with you. Unfortunately, I'm met with:

LOL HAVE FUN THOUGH. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.

Yeah. Real mature. Let's all take a moment to appreciate this man's hardcore commitment to his forum post. Thank you for your comment and immense knowledge. I think this is just what you need to fix your "problem".

Good luck bud.

 

[Shanks]

hello @Sparkle can we shut this thread down this guy is just hurting my feelings

 

[Kezz]

Okay bud, you either read it or you didn't. Make up your mind. How exactly am I trash talking? Do you consider any opposition trash talk? This section is called game debates for a reason and as far as I'm concerned, I've been pretty respectful and been trying to have a civil discussion with you. Unfortunately, I'm met with:



Yeah. Real mature. Let's all take a moment to appreciate this man's hardcore commitment to his forum post. Thank you for your comment and immense knowledge. I think this is just what you need to fix your "problem".

Good luck bud.

You're an idiot. Just straight up dumb dude. Look now I'm making comments just like you! Listen though... for real. What's your in game name?

hello @Sparkle can we shut this thread down this guy is just hurting my feelings

Stop being a troll. Save that for in-game like I do. Sparkle just ban this guy from the forums.

 

[Shanks]

how am i trolling

 

[Valachi]

You're an idiot. Just straight up dumb dude. Look now I'm making comments just like you!

>Says I am trash talking
>Proceeds to call me an idiot and "straight up dumb"

I'm sorry, but the fact you've derailed from defending your own post to putting the blame on me by saying I'm trash talking and am just a dumb idiot is a statement in itself. Take a deep breath bud. Being called out on your BS assumptions and pointing out your post's flaws does not constitute as trash talk. That's called criticism.

Listen though... for real. What's your in game name?

Oh buddy...You're definitely one of a kind.

 

[Sparkle]

Shanks, Kezz and Valachi I don't want to start moderating you, so let's not turn the discussion into trolling and exchange of insults.

Valachi is correct about the de-sync that can happen between skills and animations, as well as, you are both correct that some players may still try to use macros to get the advantage. Due to it I want to remind that using macros is forbidden, so by using them you are breaking the rules that can lead to the account ban.

Ravenspine Wings changes announced in patch notes will be applied with 4.0 release and that is not something that will be reconsidered.

 

[Frontbutt]

Like Wyatt was saying, if you're struggling to fight a certain tactic, get good lmao.

If you guys are so good at this game why do you need gliders and pets to have immunity?
Pushing 1 button and getting immunity is not a tactic btw.

@Sparkle if macroing is banable why do we have so many people doing it ? Why are you not cracking down on this rule ?

 

[Flipsy]

Due to it I want to remind that using macros is forbidden

Reports have been submitted by players running macros, they were punished, and later were unbanned. Can you clarify this statement and explain why there are exceptions to this rule? Because you say this with the implication that there are "no exceptions" and yet this seems like a slap-on-the-wrist type of ruling. One that can be waived with a Mr. Krabs-esque approach...you know, money.