Should the Hiram drop rate off Abyssal mobs be increased?

[Thriem]

@SparkleAt this time the drop rate of the new Hiram gear seems low. I know that is probably designed this way from retail and was not lowered in the custom patch. I am not in any hurry or need Hiram gear at the moment but I did go farm some to find some "niche" pieces. Now tbf I am a healer and spec'd to farm during Wartime with a 60% loot buff added to that. I obtained roughly 4-5 Hiram pieces during that time (Diamond shores). This was after the latest maintenance also where some loot drop % for princes crates were fixed along endless arrows/Ode to recovery. I later tried again the same loot buffs 60% during the war at Golden ruins obtaining about 4 Hiram pieces during the hour of loot buffs. Maybe my RNG was bad, now I am not complaining for myself but for the new players or older players coming back with a low gear score. I know I am not Dps but I am still a 11k healer that will likely grind freely without incident.

I saw many reds 3k-6k that said they were grinding for several hours only getting 4-5 drops of Hiram gear. I did not PK these players because of a personal choice to let them get their gear. I am not saying that others should follow my example because #1 it is a PvP game #2 I am not the best role model in most cases (Pirate stuff for sport). Now there is going to be others that PK in these areas sometimes even fights to break out or a high GS looking for EZ kills which is all good.
My point though for new or lower geared players this drop rate will greatly impact them in several ways. Most may not be able to afford all the loot buffs some of us run to achieve an added 60%, most will likely not farm freely without incident like people 10K+ GS. , most of these players' damage and mobs they can kill won't be as high as a better-geared player. Now I am all bout working for your gear because I earned mine as others did but if we don't look at increasing the Hiram drop rate it may cause disappointment among new players and returning players needing gear. Their time will be spent literally grinding all day to #1 get a Hiram drop #2 Then get a piece that their class can use #3 then the piece has the stats the player was looking for (most of the time 2 out of 3 meta stats is considered a piece worth keeping) I can already see the excitement in new and returning players for this gear and the custom changes that came in this patch. I say keep fanning that fire and make the drop rate better than live. It will give a new player the option to do other things in the game that are fun beyond just rifts and farming mobs all day that will surely burn new and returning players out(especially since this was what was hated about retail) labor was another problem with retail but you guys solved that by increasing labor to allow players to really do what they want when they want.(Even that at times doesn't feel like enough lol imagine if it wasn't x4).

I think a drop rate increase would give players needing this gear that kind of freedom to have fun and not feel like it is the only thing they can do if they want to catch up. Those are my thoughts and i just want to see what the players think and if it is possible for the devs to make this kind of change. Again i have the gear that will allow me to farm pieces at a slow pace, most likely not be messed with, and the resources to maintain a 60% loot buff at all time. New players and returning don't have that same privilege and are trying to catch up. I say let them catch up and also let them have the time to do other stuff to make the server feel alive again other than just farming mobs.

 

[Thriem]

Sorry for the long post i felt it important to cover what new and returning players are up against when trying to improve their gear. The grind will be their life if they want to attempt to get the right set with stats and feed those pieces. There will be little time for much else =( especially if they hope to compete with High GS when T2 becomes an option in the future. That is when the new players and returning players will feel like they have the gear to compete. Lets make the game less grindy if we can and focus on PvP and others things that are fun. It would truely make this server stand out as even more player friendly and show how much better AR is to their players than retail and that other private server

 

[RogueChoi]

I think the low droprate is extra miserable factoring in that we can only get Prince purses/crates too, and Lost Garden not dropping from Abyssal Mobs (no archeum income). And as you said, maintaining above 50-60% loot buffs with our economy's supply is not going to be possible very long. I'm also a healer and at a slight PVE disadvantage as of this patch too compared to melee/mage (maybe archery if the endless arrow situation is still bad or its ok), so I can't really farm as many mobs as others can in the same period of 30-60minutes.

I also think with the lack of custom changes in 4.5, and the ever growing gap between us and live servers again, I would really like to see 4.7 ASAP so players can actually start awakening Hiram gear and start replacing their divine t5 obby with comparable rank gear. The drop rate issue could be slightly offset by the 4.7 Sungold/Exeloch/Reedwind infusion dailies and those as drops but a slight increase would be nice as well. Then an expedited plan to hit 5.0 so players can actually turn their obsidian to infusions for Hiram, as well as the general infusion buffs/drop rates that happen in 5.0, because that's a sign there was issues with the system being a bit too grindy. I also agree with your statement on labor. Why have this labor if we can't do much more with it?

TLDR; being so lagged being patches and being stuck in 'rough spots' in Archeage's history and not closing the gap on better eras where some of the issues are alleviated or removed, on a server that is supposed to be less stagnant than live I would think, just feels a bit.... frustrating.

 

[Thriem]

I think the low droprate is extra miserable factoring in that we can only get Prince purses/crates too, and Lost Garden not dropping from Abyssal Mobs (no archeum income). And as you said, maintaining above 50-60% loot buffs with our economy's supply is not going to be possible very long. I'm also a healer and at a slight PVE disadvantage as of this patch too compared to melee/mage (maybe archery if the endless arrow situation is still bad or its ok), so I can't really farm as many mobs as others can in the same period of 30-60minutes.

I also think with the lack of custom changes in 4.5, and the ever growing gap between us and live servers again, I would really like to see 4.7 ASAP so players can actually start awakening Hiram gear and start replacing their divine t5 obby with comparable rank gear. The drop rate issue could be slightly offset by the 4.7 Sungold/Exeloch/Reedwind infusion dailies and those as drops but a slight increase would be nice as well. Then an expedited plan to hit 5.0 so players can actually turn their obsidian to infusions for Hiram, as well as the general infusion buffs/drop rates that happen in 5.0, because that's a sign there was issues with the system being a bit too grindy. I also agree with your statement on labor. Why have this labor if we can't do much more with it?

TLDR; being so lagged being patches and being stuck in 'rough spots' in Archeage's history and not closing the gap on better eras where some of the issues are alleviated or removed, on a server that is supposed to be less stagnant than live I would think, just feels a bit.... frustrating.

I agree with RogueChoi 100% they should try to bring 4.7 along as fast as they can but it won't matter if the drop rate stays the same. New players and returning will then be focused on 1 piece of gear when they have a whole set to obtain to be competitive. I was on the live forums back in 2016 when this issue came up @Sparkle. If you read the forum posts if you google "Hiram drop rates 4.5" you will see how the community reacted and that was with Double loot drop weekends and a straight 60% loot buff potion that you could buy from the market place a 1hr of grinding would drop 4-5 pieces. This won't catch up any new players at that rate, they will have time to focus on 1 item and buy the time T2 comes out will not have the gear to compete with high GS that can now start swapping some pieces. With a boosted rate players needing this gear will have their gear figured out before 4.7, meaning new players will be in full celest Hiram or have it ready for 4.7.
When that patch drops an increased drop rate will then have them in awakened gear that is on par with divine ayanad/Epic T5 and now some new/returning players can have some fun. If these new ppl spend all their time grinding how are they going to make gold or have time to focus on their gems without paying a healthy AH price. If they can't make gold they cant buy gems/related stuff. They could buy credits but if they feel run down by grinding it may deter that. If players feel real progression of gear to catch up without a heavy grind people will flock back. People will put money into this game because it listened to them.
Aside from obtaining the gear and feeding it, there is still more of a grind to the gear. "Awakening" is its own grind. If it fails it gets "Crystalized" and then cant be fed till it is un-crystalized which is a Reedwind daily that when done after several days gives you enough of an item that allows you to un-crystalize the Hiram piece. you do get a 10% buff to upgrade after each failed attempt to Awaken but each time you need the item to un-crystalize. The daily to obtain this is killing X number of mobs (if I remeber right it is 50 or 100) see more grinding.

So let the feeding and obtaining be easier for a real "catch up mechanic" It is IMO Trion made this attempt at free gear so grindy so that ppl bought market place 60% loot buffs and infusions to milk more money to make up for bad business choices that lost them money. Trion would still be going strong if they put the capital they made from the game into the game and its players. Instead, they invested money in several failed projects and kept inventing new ways to bait/switch players to get more money out of them. This is known to most people but we must take into consideration why retail wanted drop rates so low and why they didn't listen to players then about drop rates. They wanted to make money relying on people paying money not to farm all day and didn't care if players complained as long as the money kept coming in. I mean why wouldn't i buy tons of 60% loot buff pots off the market place or infusions because I am going to blow out my brain with all this grinding. Players wanted to play not grind all day. Trion never cared what the players wanted. @Sparkle I believe you and the rest of the AR team do give a Fook about your players, so is this possible to change?

 

[geololj]

I can only get to 20% drop rate from two consumables. Do you guys use any consumables from events and such?

 

[trapwhre02]

@geololj
+10% Greedy Grimoire
+10% Greedy Goblin Gummies
+10% Greedy Dwarven Elixir
+10% Lucky Quicksilver Tonic

There's a few more but these are the most common ones and they are cheap.
You get additional loot drop from the halcyona buff, as well as when doing your guild quests (I think those improve your guild buff, and with that - the loot %)
There's pets, too. The owl I think that was in cash shop a long time ago. Lucky Buddy from an old appreciation pack etc.

 

[Thriem]

@geololj
+10% Greedy Grimoire
+10% Greedy Goblin Gummies
+10% Greedy Dwarven Elixir
+10% Lucky Quicksilver Tonic

There's a few more but these are the most common ones and they are cheap.
You get additional loot drop from the halcyona buff, as well as when doing your guild quests (I think those improve your guild buff, and with that - the loot %)
There's pets, too. The owl I think that was in cash shop a long time ago. Lucky Buddy from an old appreciation pack etc.

I agree that the loot pots are cheap but then again I have several hundred thousand gold and ave 4-6k gold/day. I would assume that 10g-15g per pot for a new player is a lot to them. Especially all those pots can be at times not available or at decent prices. A new player will have to spend on ave 40-60g per hour they farm and with the drop rate that will add up. Just a thought. I also use Elixir of greed, loot pet, a do a pella pack to get the 15% boost. But even with these buffs it is will be hard for new/returning players to get enough drops to make a difference gear wise. Again I point out the official AA forums in 2016 because this will be an issue that will lose players and not attract new ones that went through this once before with Hiram back then. I mean back then like I said there was a 60% loot buff in the market place and it was double loot drop weekends, still shitter drop rate to pad the P2w

 

[Tazboi]

@geololj
+10% Greedy Grimoire
+10% Greedy Goblin Gummies
+10% Greedy Dwarven Elixir
+10% Lucky Quicksilver Tonic

There's a few more but these are the most common ones and they are cheap.
You get additional loot drop from the halcyona buff, as well as when doing your guild quests (I think those improve your guild buff, and with that - the loot %)
There's pets, too. The owl I think that was in cash shop a long time ago. Lucky Buddy from an old appreciation pack etc.

This + Guild buff (which is upgraded after doing a guild daily) is like upwards of 65% loot drop rate

 

[Zing™]

I don't think it would hurt to have the rate increased a little. The arguments here are good, although Thriem please god use paragraphs <3

 

[Zecen]

It wouldn't be as bad if the purses were better, as Rogue stated, the purses are bad, useless in my opinion.. even queens would be a step up from princes. Being new mobs im surprised they carry prince purses.
Giving them better purses and upping the drop rate would be better, because i have gotten quite a bit today in farming(just lucky) but all but one were bad stats, so even with my luck today, its gonna take awhile to get something decent.

 

[Aviendha]

What is wrong with the drops? I grinded for an hour and they dropped a LOT more than on live. Keep in mind we already got increased loot as a base, and easy access to more buffs...?

 

[Aviendha]

It wouldn't be as bad if the purses were better, as Rogue stated, the purses are bad, useless in my opinion.. even queens would be a step up from princes. Being new mobs im surprised they carry prince purses.
Giving them better purses and upping the drop rate would be better, because i have gotten quite a bit today in farming(just lucky) but all but one were bad stats, so even with my luck today, its gonna take awhile to get something decent.

I don't agree, prince is decent for lunarite too imo x) not the best not definitely not that awful.

 

[Aviendha]

I can only get to 20% drop rate from two consumables. Do you guys use any consumables from events and such?

Remember to do one of the 3 guild packs to your base in DS for increased guild buff = extra loot.

And yes there's drops from events like the christmas one, and the ice fishing event. Also don't forget to use a title, most people will have one of those courtesy of the devs.

 

[Thriem]

Remember to do one of the 3 guild packs to your base in DS for increased guild buff = extra loot.

And yes there's drops from events like the christmas one, and the ice fishing event. Also don't forget to use a title, most people will have one of those courtesy of the devs.

Avi i hear you and I know I didn't space my sentences out well in paragraph form as I should have but please read my points. I give the 2016 live forums on this issues as an example and will repeat if nothing is done to correct this.

Right now it may seem fine for you maybe but did you play in 5.0- 5.5 ? I did and this grind is bad and a new/returning player will be lucky to get more that 2 pieces of gear to T1 awakening level let alone enough pieces to "catch up". Then the amount of exp and grinding it will take to get just 1-2 pieces to T2 is a lot of grinding/infusions how will theses new/returning players "catch up" and then not get burned out on this grind. Those of us with High GS and resources wont have too much of an issue and can take our time.

You and I wont even begin to swap out pieces till T2 Hiram. New/returning players wont have this time and will need to grind a lot. Then grind some more just to get the right piece, then the right stats, then feed it. That is not a "catch up mechanic" that is cancer and like on live people will burn out, leave, or not even bother coming to this server to go through that again as they did on live.

This is about the game and what players wanted. This is about server health and attracting people here from what they hated about AAU/live. This just isn't about if you think you get a fair amount of drops because if you have ever fed a club to T2 Awakened (which I have) you would not being saying that or you love grinding.

If you catch it on my previous posts I did have Full loot buffs and a pella pack boost from DS it wont make a difference. With these rates as I said before on live you could buy on the market place a 60% loot buff pot and we had double loot drop weekends and it still was super cancer. Google "Hiram drop rate 4.5 AA live forum 2016" you will see what I am saying

 

[Thriem]

I don't think it would hurt to have the rate increased a little. The arguments here are good, although Thriem please god use paragraphs <3

yea I am sorry man. I was at work and trying to do several things at once. I know that makes it hard to read, my apologies.

 

[Thriem]

This + Guild buff (which is upgraded after doing a guild daily) is like upwards of 65% loot drop rate

If you remember those of us that played on live when this patch hit were rocking a 90% loot buff when farming this and people still complained on the forums. When I say complained they lit them up. If nothing is done to adjust the rate in a month or so many complaints from new/returning players will mirror the 2016 forums regarding this. Beyond wanting server health and player population to grow I have no other motivation here. It will be a year or more before this gear will matter to me

 

[Nerono]

Would be great to have something as "Moonlight Juice" from later patches.

Spoiler: jiuce

 

[Sjinderson]

New players do not need to grind to start on the server. They're provided support pack gear already.

As for the drop rate it'll remain as it is.
Gear is a progression. That means it takes time and should be something you develop over time. Not something you acquire in days or weeks. Players have gotten where they are today over the course of a year or longer.

Hiram is not a catchup gear. It is a new type of gear entirely and just like other gear should require time and investment. Not be acquired in days

 

[RogueChoi]

New players do not need to grind to start on the server. They're provided support pack gear already.

As for the drop rate it'll remain as it is.
Gear is a progression. That means it takes time and should be something you develop over time. Not something you acquire in days or weeks. Players have gotten where they are today over the course of a year or longer.

Hiram is not a catchup gear. It is a new type of gear entirely and just like other gear should require time and investment. Not be acquired in days

Like how ya'll gave everyone divine T5 obsidian sets when they started on the server? Now they get to wait 6-9 months for 2 patch cycles before they can use what they've been farming to replace it? ?

And I've been the biggest proponent of gear progression, but it needs to be just that, able to be progressed. Is free housing and 4x labor really going to be the only selling point of ArcheRage? Most of us came here not to get 'lol easy mode', but to have a bit better conditions than live. Hiram can't be bankrolled, so I guess that's ya'lls reasoning for keeping Hiram stagnant on this server, more incentive to swipe $$$ and keep Ayanad/Erenor in use.

 

[Sjinderson]

There are better ways to implement a system to earn progression beyond hours and hours of literally the most mindless activity you can do in this game. The entry point shouldn't be spending an inordinate amount of time doing a repetitive task like grinding mindlessly easy mobs. This is a bad system with unfun gameplay. Figure it out.

You're assuming that future additions to hiram will come as they were.
Which in those updates they allow you to reroll the stats of the gear with serendipity stones and level it with infusions that are quest rewards. Eliminating any need to put time into grinding and just slowly building up over time. Or just mass grinding till you get it anyway.
As far as players are concerned 4.7 could introduce awakenings, infusions and the rerolls in an entirely new way that makes grinding only part of the system for the initial pieces.

Like how ya'll gave everyone divine T5 obsidian sets when they started on the server? Now they get to wait 6-9 months for 2 patch cycles before they can use what they've been farming to replace it? ?

And I've been the biggest proponent of gear progression, but it needs to be just that, able to be progressed. Is free housing and 4x labor really going to be the only selling point of ArcheRage? Most of us came here not to get 'lol easy mode', but to have a bit better conditions than live. Hiram can't be bankrolled, so I guess that's ya'lls reasoning for keeping Hiram stagnant on this server, more incentive to swipe $$$ and keep Ayanad/Erenor in use.

What makes having a different set of gear stay relevant in the game a bad thing?
Obsidian, hiram and crafted gear. 3 entirely unique types of gear that all have their own way of progression. Some faster than others. Why should one get to not only be the best in the end, but the most cost effective to obtain.


As for the drop rate of the items the numbers posted here are drastically lower than anything thats been seed. After comparing my own results across near 10 hours and others who've also spent a few hours farming the gear getting 4-5 pieces in an hour is multiples lower than any result we encountered where even non dps based classes have been reaching upwards of 20+ pieces per hour (Some were not even using any loot buff items) so to receive less than 1/4th what the lowest results shown would mean your kill rate, your luck was exceptionally low or you were killing the wrong mobs/ mobs that are mixed in with non abyssal legion class enemies.
If the result did match up that the drops were exceedingly low it is still far to early to even consider improving them. The patch has barely been out for 3 days and its already being asked to make an incredibly easy gear to acquire even easier to acquire.