Guild formation confirmation
- Thread starter Vapewave
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trapwhre02
Well-Known Member
For clarification, many west players are currently guildless as they have dropped their guild to help defend a castle for an allied guild.
Some players don't have the 24h timer anymore and can be invited. PN is using it to their advantage, by sending west alts to bait these people into raids/parties. They then form a guild and there is no confirmation from party members required. Said players become members of the newly created guild without their agreement and if they leave, they get the 24h cooldown again, forcing them to flip pirate to bypass it, if they want to attend the siege.
Honestly, I'm all up for fun pvp, I'm excited for the siege but there is a line that is crossed by doing this. It is a manipulation of game-events (the upcoming siege) and to put it simple, it's the abuse of mechanics in an unintentional way.
Last time I read the rules, this lead to harsh punishments..
Some players don't have the 24h timer anymore and can be invited. PN is using it to their advantage, by sending west alts to bait these people into raids/parties. They then form a guild and there is no confirmation from party members required. Said players become members of the newly created guild without their agreement and if they leave, they get the 24h cooldown again, forcing them to flip pirate to bypass it, if they want to attend the siege.
Honestly, I'm all up for fun pvp, I'm excited for the siege but there is a line that is crossed by doing this. It is a manipulation of game-events (the upcoming siege) and to put it simple, it's the abuse of mechanics in an unintentional way.
Last time I read the rules, this lead to harsh punishments..
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There is no abuse of mechanics.
You are required to accept the invite to the party. That is your confirmation check.
Joining the wrong party or accidentally joining another groups for them to then form a guild is of no fault to the system and is the players negligence.
There is no system fault or mechanic abuse. This is a player fault for joining their party in the first place. You solution is don't join parties from other players unless you know who they are.
However. This could be considered an attempt to sabotage a game event as it is a intentional malicious attempt to deny players from attending and potentially preventing a siege entirely if too many members are caught by it.
I would need to discuss with Administration first to decide if it is an attempt at sabotage.
For now I ask that if you are caught into a newly created guild screenshot and pm me the guild name and characters involved
You are required to accept the invite to the party. That is your confirmation check.
Joining the wrong party or accidentally joining another groups for them to then form a guild is of no fault to the system and is the players negligence.
There is no system fault or mechanic abuse. This is a player fault for joining their party in the first place. You solution is don't join parties from other players unless you know who they are.
However. This could be considered an attempt to sabotage a game event as it is a intentional malicious attempt to deny players from attending and potentially preventing a siege entirely if too many members are caught by it.
I would need to discuss with Administration first to decide if it is an attempt at sabotage.
For now I ask that if you are caught into a newly created guild screenshot and pm me the guild name and characters involved
trapwhre02
Well-Known Member
So you are telling me that if there is CR/GR coming up, and you go to /nation and say x up CR/GR or use the raid finder limited to 5 people, convert it into a party and create a guild to prevent your competition from defending what belongs to them, that that is no abuse of mechanics ?
That's illusionary.
Either way, appreciate your efforts for passing it on.
That's illusionary.
Either way, appreciate your efforts for passing it on.
This is 100% an abuse of mechanics. There should be a confirmation to create a new guild for everyone. This tactic is underhanded and abusive. You should not be forced to join a guild that you do not agree to.
No its not. Because the mechanics work in that manor. cr/gr belong to no one. It spawns in an area where the faction of that area has quests to defeat it, It is not owned by a group.
If you did that its not an abuse of mechanics. Instead it would be sabotage as you are intentionally locking people from a faction events reward.
Your confirmation check is accepting party invites from unknown names. Falling for the first one you're likely to fall for a second because you're not paying attention. Just like in the past where people were invited to guilds with almost the same names.
"You should not be forced to join a guild that you do not agree to". To the game you did agree because you are in their party.
It is not abuse because what are you abusing. The fact you can create a guild once you have people in your party.
I will repeat. This would be something to be discussed with the administration. As I deem it an attempt to sabotage a game event which is against the rules.
That is why I have asked if you find people that have been caught by it have them screenshot and send me the guild and characters involved so that if the Administration agree with me that this is sabotage all the players involved can receive punishment.
To which is a 7 day game ban for first offense sabotaging game events.
You are being argumentative while not making a reasonable point.
When you accept a group invite, you are agreeing to join a group, not a guild. If there were a confirmation screen, you would then agree to join the guild. By implementing this, it would remove the abuseable mechanic of forcing people into a guild after you trick them into a group.
The player who did this was Shankss. We don't have a character or guild name because the member who was forced to join that guild dropped immediately, and thishappened before you asked for screenshots. Look into his characters and his guilds and you'll figure it out. The person that attempted this on me was Altevista or something like that.
I'm not arguing because I am telling you that it is not an abuse of a mechanic and that is that.
There no abuseable mechanic because it is how the mechanic works.
An abusable mechanic would be something such as using destroyed clippers to get the ezi buff on an enoan to hotswap the figurehead to reset it cooldown.
This is something you can call abuse of a mechanic because you are taking a system and bypassing it with something else.
There is no bypass here. No abnormal effect. There is only the system in how it works.
You say a confirmation window would help. I say it won't because even when things like that exist people still fall for these deceptions.
If a confirmation is there and a window comes up saying you've been invited to such a guild people will still fall for it because they will just name it very similar to the guild you're intending to join and nothing changes. People are still deceived and end up joining guilds they don't want to be in all because of the persons negligence.
I ask for screenshots because just names is nothing to go off of. There is no proof of anything there. If we were to check the accounts we have nothing to base anything off. If they have a low level character in a level 1 guild that isn't proof. If they have many characters all in the same boat of level 1 guilds then there's a beginning. If there is multiple characters and screenshots of the deception then there is proper ground to say you have been doing this.
There no abuseable mechanic because it is how the mechanic works.
An abusable mechanic would be something such as using destroyed clippers to get the ezi buff on an enoan to hotswap the figurehead to reset it cooldown.
This is something you can call abuse of a mechanic because you are taking a system and bypassing it with something else.
There is no bypass here. No abnormal effect. There is only the system in how it works.
You say a confirmation window would help. I say it won't because even when things like that exist people still fall for these deceptions.
If a confirmation is there and a window comes up saying you've been invited to such a guild people will still fall for it because they will just name it very similar to the guild you're intending to join and nothing changes. People are still deceived and end up joining guilds they don't want to be in all because of the persons negligence.
I ask for screenshots because just names is nothing to go off of. There is no proof of anything there. If we were to check the accounts we have nothing to base anything off. If they have a low level character in a level 1 guild that isn't proof. If they have many characters all in the same boat of level 1 guilds then there's a beginning. If there is multiple characters and screenshots of the deception then there is proper ground to say you have been doing this.
Technically yes. Such is why a cooldown timer was added to Draughts of forgiveness in live.
If the information provided here is correct, it can be considered an attempt to sabotage the game event. In this case, the attack/defense stage of the sieges. If proves are provided, player who broke the rules will be punished accordingly.
Just a reminder, if you want to report a player, please submit a ticket.
Just a reminder, if you want to report a player, please submit a ticket.
We'll check if it's possible to include additional confirmation pop-ups if you are invited to join the guild in such case.
Joey
Active Member
Hi, If this case is a way of blocking game/events I'd like to request the administration put out a rule against using bid guilds(alt guilds that make 0 attempt to actually take the castle) to block sieges from happening on currently owned castles. I was told in pms by you personally that I was not allowed to do this and we have not done it since then but other guilds are allowed too.
Edit: Another alternative would be to set a relatively high minimum bid on castle scrolls to prevent 1copper bids, or bids that are simply just castle owners attempting to collect there peacefund meaning sieges would only happen if someone was making a attempt on the castle.
Edit: Another alternative would be to set a relatively high minimum bid on castle scrolls to prevent 1copper bids, or bids that are simply just castle owners attempting to collect there peacefund meaning sieges would only happen if someone was making a attempt on the castle.
I think the players abusing mechanics like this should also have their main accounts punished as well. PN1 probably logged into other players accounts that don’t play any more and preformed this abuse. With out punishing their main account this punishment really does nothing. I requested that those who last logged in with accounts that preformed this action have their IP tracked and main accounts punished as well. It would be the only fair corse of punishment.
I herd that logging into more then one account illegal? Is this true ?
I herd that logging into more then one account illegal? Is this true ?
HNIC_Steamroller
Active Member
is anyone going to address the blatant favoritism shown in this thread?
Cinders
New Member
Hey y’all.
I rarely post on these forums, but I have to say that the blatant favoritism sjinderson is holding for Joey/PN is ridiculous. Claiming that a blatant abuse/exploit that PN1 was using was “working as intended” and then claiming that a mechanic that actually works as intended (flipping pirate to remove a cool down) is an abuse/exploit can really throw off the balance of the game if Sparkles hadn’t stepped in. I worked as a GM for a well-known MMO for years, and that’s a serious offense that could cost someone their job. I know this is a small community ran server, but I recommend doing a thorough check on this dude before letting him continue to moderate/GM for y’all. Just my 2C.
I rarely post on these forums, but I have to say that the blatant favoritism sjinderson is holding for Joey/PN is ridiculous. Claiming that a blatant abuse/exploit that PN1 was using was “working as intended” and then claiming that a mechanic that actually works as intended (flipping pirate to remove a cool down) is an abuse/exploit can really throw off the balance of the game if Sparkles hadn’t stepped in. I worked as a GM for a well-known MMO for years, and that’s a serious offense that could cost someone their job. I know this is a small community ran server, but I recommend doing a thorough check on this dude before letting him continue to moderate/GM for y’all. Just my 2C.
@Sjinderson If you could please explain your reasoning in how inviting people to a party to form a dummy guild in order to lock them out of a siege, does not fall under the actual definition of abuse. The mechanic working as intended is so people can form guilds when they first start together, not as a tool to reduce an opponents siege numbers. The fact that the fake guild was created because the mechanics allow a fake guild to be created, which seems to be your only argument in defense of it NOT being abuse, has zero relevance. Abuse is defined by intentional misuse, misapplication, as clearly shown above.
The intent of the mechanic is to allow people to create guilds, not to be used as a tool to lock people out of content and sabotage literally the most consequential PvP event that can occur in Archeage. If you can use underhanded tactics and abuse game mechanics to reduce your opponents force in a fucking CASTLE SIEGE, what else are you going to let slide?
If you could clarify how you choose to define what is or isn't abuse, and how that leads you to come to your conclusion that would be great. Because from the outside it's plainly obvious you have either a positive bias towards PN1 or ridiculously petty and unprofessional bias against the West at large.
trapwhre02
Well-Known Member
What baffles me is how Joey as nation lead is promoting the abuse of a mechanic in an unintentional way, which by definition is an exploit. And he still shows zero dignity by coming here and trying to turn this thread upside down by adressing, to this topic, irrelevant issues that need their own thread.
Funny cause I could swear I saw cheeselords buy your scrolls every now and then and a couple other guilds in the past.
You're a clown for coming up with that only now that your nation is capped to 80 members and cannot hold 2 castles anymore. Before that, if we had gotten enough people we could've sieged both, calmlands and sungold and you would've lost a castle since you'd be greatly outnumbered as you had to split 120 nation members on 2 sieges with 200 attackers. But you make this suggestion only now when you don't need to care about it as it's not a threat to you anymore.
Personally I'm all up for this rule because real sieges are a true rarity and we've seen how much fun they can be. Just thought it's hilarious how you suddenly come up with such a suggestion.
Funny cause I could swear I saw cheeselords buy your scrolls every now and then and a couple other guilds in the past.
You're a clown for coming up with that only now that your nation is capped to 80 members and cannot hold 2 castles anymore. Before that, if we had gotten enough people we could've sieged both, calmlands and sungold and you would've lost a castle since you'd be greatly outnumbered as you had to split 120 nation members on 2 sieges with 200 attackers. But you make this suggestion only now when you don't need to care about it as it's not a threat to you anymore.
Personally I'm all up for this rule because real sieges are a true rarity and we've seen how much fun they can be. Just thought it's hilarious how you suddenly come up with such a suggestion.
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