The problem with suggestions and their implementations

[Gugu]

Hi everyone!

I'm making this post after witnessing a pattern in how things are implemented after our suggestions.
The biggest changes (QoL changes like stack sizes aren't really big changes) have not been implemented properly once, out of the 3 that were. This is worrying for 3.0, and for the server's future overall.

Let's start with what was asked :

• Luckies on world bosses
  • Original idea : Add lucky points on World Bosses so that smaller guilds can farm bosses such as Jola, to get a supply of luckies that would turn into gold or help improve members' gear.
  • Implementation : Luckies were added on Morpheus, Anthalon, Glenn, Kraken and Red Dragon.
  • The problem : The implementation actively went against was the original idea stood for. Instead of helping small guilds get a boost, only the biggest (and already dominating guilds) have had a chance at getting this. This does NOTHING for small guilds, as they'll never ever see one of these luckies (Maybe Morpheus if lucky). I'm fairly sure that I can count on one hand the number of guilds that have gotten luckies thanks to this change.
• Hasla token trading for luckies
  • Original idea : Add a way to trade Hasla Tokens into Lucky points so that people can farm Hasla whenever they want (just like you can farm monsters in Marcala, Calmlands etc) and get more luckies in the economy
  • Implementation : A new event was added, with a Rift spawning every hour during a few hours every day. A new type of Hasla weapon was also added to help newer players catch up.
  • The problem : Getting anything out of the event is not realistic for new players, and a colossal waste of time for everyone else. The monsters are stupidly strong, making it impossible to farm as a small group, and the loot is too scarce for it to be worth doing as a full raid. I'm pretty sure there have been little to no luckies generated out of this event.
• Honor socketing problem
  • Original idea : Make honor gems on armor pieces less of a pain, and reduce/remove the RNG element to them. Other ideas with buffs and vanity items were added to give a use to honor, since reducing the RNG involved would most likely mean less honor spent on gems.
  • Implementation : ALL gems (not only honor) now have a 100% chance on the second slot. Grimoires were also added, but these aren't a big change.
  • The problem : First of all, since it's now ALL gems having a 100% chance on the second slot, I'm fairly certain that hundreds of items need to be redone, since people used prestige gems to fill up the risky slots. This is really annoying, as this was not the idea behind the original proposition. The second part of the problem is that it does not help with the honor issue. The issue was that losing all your honor gems everytime you failed would make you useless in PvP for a while, since you'd die in 1 hit. This issue still happens, after people sink tens of thousands of honor point into an item and still end up with 0 gems, meaning they spent a LOT of honor to end up with an item worse than the original.

I'm not addressing solutions here as those were already given in the debates, but ignored.

All of these changes have had negative feedback so far. This is especially noticeable on the World Boss suggestion, since not a single post out of the 20+ after Sparkle's message agreed with the solution the staff offered.


There is a big issue with feedback on this server, and most of the people playing the game right now can agree that there's this pattern happening :

• Suggestion is posted
• After some debate, a solution is found where most people agree (Huge positive responses on most threads)
• Staff comes in, post their thoughts and their idea
• People disagree with it
• Staff goes with their idea and locks the thread

This is worrying, since 3.0 requires a lot of change, and so far, the community's voice has not been heard properly.


Please give us your thoughts on this issue, and help fix some of the previous changes so that we can find something positive to tell people when we tell them about how the staff ACTUALLY changes stuff.

 

[Sabanana]

I feel like the staff needs to calm down a little with closing the threads instantly. I have seen a lot of suggestions and even threads simply asking a question getting closed after a short response by one of the moderators, leaving the original poster with more questions that cannot be answered unless they make a new thread (which is going to be closed, once again). I see people who post on profiles lately because their threads are not properly answered and just get closed.
Please let players who suggest things or ask questions have a chance to respond without closing the thread instantly.

 

[tsutsu]

beep beep

 

[Pewpewpewpewpewpew]

agreed

 

[Wings]

My biggest issue is that there seems to be little communication when it comes to their ideas, why they picked them and what they think is wrong with our ideas. I would really like to see more discussion from the staffs side about stuff rather than us creating massive topics, one post being made about how "they heard us and this is the change they will do based off our feed back" only for the change to be either a crazily gimped form of what we suggested or not even in the same ballpark. I think it would be better if changes were not made until the staff actually creates a post addressing their concerns with our solutions and their solutions to the problem in order for there to be more discussion and a common ground to met.

Now I understand staff is busy and that's fine but changes do not need to be made immediately. If a couple more days to a week of discussion need to happen in order for changes that will actually do something to occur, then so be it . Currently it almost feels like they don't trust us to come up with ideas because we are trying to be cheeky and make the game easier? This is a private server, granted it is theirs and they can do with it what they want, but shouldn't it be the goal of a private server to make super annoying things less of a pain and make it easier for people to reach competitive levels in both PVE and PVP?

These are just my thoughts but you bring up good points Gugu and I hope our concerns are addressed properly.

 

[Ryuzaki]

Hey guys, yes those suggestions were not implemented as voted by the community, hopefully will be reviewed.
Atm, i am trying to look into the [Game event] Ghost Wedding Festival , and why the dungeons are not working, so Admins will be busy as well for a while but ill notify them once current issues related to last update are resolved.

 

[maydewrq]

I just watched a guildmate blow 250k of honor into gemming his shirt 10mins after the 2 100% gem patch was out, only to be left with a single gem in it after he was completely drained of honor. In all fairness it was just as funny as it was heart wrenching but the change tbh didn't really directly address the main issue but instead just helped all the big swipers double socket all their weps/armor with the t3 and 220 loyalty gems that they can just swipe for pushing the gear gap between them and the not so wealthy. Not to mention with the increased demand for 220 loyalty gems will surely hurt the already extremely stupid price for luckies atm. I do agree with what gugu brought up, but at the same time also commend the living shit out of the admins and staff for even responding. Even with just the listed few its more then trion has done in 3 years of running their shitshow.

I do hope hasla changes come out soon, and that they can help with the lucky issue we are facing atm and that the admins also realise that having luckies in smaller more accessible world bosses isnt a bad thing at all, if anything it will promote more rvr against guilds that wouldn't normally do so. Ill be anxiously waiting on responses until this thread is closed, which I hope wont be straight away.

 

[elyndora]

I feel like the staff needs to calm down a little with closing the threads instantly. I have seen a lot of suggestions and even threads simply asking a question getting closed after a short response by one of the moderators, leaving the original poster with more questions that cannot be answered unless they make a new thread (which is going to be closed, once again). I see people who post on profiles lately because their threads are not properly answered and just get closed.
Please let players who suggest things or ask questions have a chance to respond without closing the thread instantly.

I've seen it happen a lot, but this is the first time it's happened to me, and to be honest it's got me ready to pack up and leave. I ended up posting on my profile because I know it's going to be seen for at least a day or two on the forum sidebar, at least, instead of being closed before actual, feasible changes can be discussed and then lost to the forum.

Realizing the admins don't care enough to actually listen (aside from @Ryuzaki honestly) makes me regret trying to defend them for so long, both here and in-game.

 

[Ryuzaki]

I just watched a guildmate blow 250k of honor into gemming his shirt 10mins after the 2 100% gem patch was out, only to be left with a single gem in it after he was completely drained of honor. In all fairness it was just as funny as it was heart wrenching but the change tbh didn't really directly address the main issue but instead just helped all the big swipers double socket all their weps/armor with the t3 and 220 loyalty gems that they can just swipe for pushing the gear gap between them and the not so wealthy. Not to mention with the increased demand for 220 loyalty gems will surely hurt the already extremely stupid price for luckies atm. I do agree with that gugu brought up, but at the same time also commend the living shit out of the admins and staff for even responding. Even with just the listed few its more then trion has done in 3 years of running their shitshow.

I do hope hasla changes come out soon that can help with the luckies and that the admins also realise that having luckies in smaller more accessible world bosses isnt a bad thing at all, if anything it will promote more rvr against guilds that wouldn't normally do so. Ill be anxiously waiting on responses until this thread is closed, which I hope wont be straight away.

Thread wont be closed at least not by Moderation.
There was a very nice compromised solution to make I & II socket 100% chance and, I & II sockets be unbreakable, but it was scrapped by development for some reason. I personally think this would had worked, but they decided to remove it.
Did warn them these socketing changes did close to no difference, but they feared players would lose interest related to the events and or game.

There were still 2-8 sockets that could fail with this so i did not see an issue with it as honor sink.

What do you think @Sparkle @IronLady ?
Can this be made at least a bit better ?

Not sure what changes to this 3.0 will passively bring ,but it would be nice to know the future of socketing.Since now its not in a good spot.
For now only positive thing this brought is socketing loyalty gems, and that was not even suggested, but its great since they are expensive.

 

[Mim]

This is a private server, granted it is theirs and they can do with it what they want, but shouldn't it be the goal of a private server to make super annoying things less of a pain and make it easier for people to reach competitive levels in both PVE and PVP?

These are just my thoughts but you bring up good points Gugu and I hope our concerns are addressed properly.

From the players perspective, yes, it should be more fun.
From the admin, this is a business and money is their priority.

I like the stack size change, but I wonder about the handicrafters on the server. How much impact will this have on storage chest sales? Did this just cripple someone's trade? Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
(Also my raw ore does not stack, but the ingots do. Was raw ore overlooked or is this intended?)

I can't stand this Gestapo-like censorship. So what if we want to discuss things that will never happen. Players are leaving the server, and now they are being gagged/silenced on the forums.

 

[Gugu]

Not sure what changes to this 3.0 will passively bring ,but it would be nice to know the future of socketing.

There are no changes to socketing before 4.0 iirc. There were no changes in 3.0 and 3.5 regarding socketing at least.

 

[maydewrq]

Thread wont be closed at least not by Moderation.
There was a very nice compromised solution to make I & II socket 100% chance and, I & II sockets be unbreakable, but it was scrapped by development for some reason. I personally think this would had worked, but they decided to remove it.
Did warn them these socketing changes did close to no difference, but they feared players would lose interest related to the events and or game.

There were still 2-8 sockets that could fail with this so i did not see an issue with it as honor sink.

What do you think @Sparkle @IronLady ?
Can this be made at least a bit better ?

Not sure what changes to this 3.0 will passively bring ,but it would be nice to know the future of socketing.Since now its not in a good spot.
For now only positive thing this brought is socketing loyalty gems, and that was not even suggested, but its great since they are expensive.

Omg tbh I & II sockets be unbreakable, would be amazing. Not a complete overkill, and actually helps people like my friend who is 50/50 on fence about quitting over suffering through what he just went through, pretty sure its recorded aswell im sure he will post it soon.

 

[Wings]

From the players perspective, yes, it should be more fun.
From the admin, this is a business and money is their priority.

Though wouldn't players having more fun potentially lead to them spending money because they enjoy the server? That's my philosophy anyway.

 

[Sparkle]

Imagine, we added all the requested changes. You start the game, and in 1-2 months you enchant armor and weapon for max and insert max gems. All your friends do the same. Now all server have top armor, top weapon and top stuff.
What will you do next? Of course you'll leave the game, as now all the players are at the same level and you have nothing else to reach in game, no more goals.
Would you still be interested in continuing playing? All players will be the same, no differences, no more goals. You'll get bored fast and leave.

 

[Mim]

Realizing the admins don't care enough to actually listen (aside from @Ryuzaki honestly) makes me regret trying to defend them for so long, both here and in-game.

Agreed. I've given Ryuzaki a hard time in the past, but they always respond to me like a normal human being, and I really appreciate that.

 

[Mim]

Though wouldn't players having more fun potentially lead to them spending money because they enjoy the server? That's my philosophy anyway.

HAHAH Yes!
I was hoping some one would make that conclusion with out me typing it. =]

 

[pedrosner]

Imagine, we added all the requested changes. You start the game, and in 1-2 months you enchant armor and weapon for max and insert max gems. All your friends do the same. Now all server have top armor, top weapon and top stuff.
What will you do next? Of course you'll leave the game, as now all the players are at the same level and you have nothing else to reach in game, no more goals.
Would you still be interested in continuing playing? All players will be the same, no differences, no more goals. You'll get bored fast and leave.

There's plenty people who are currently leaving / have left cause of how hard things still are ,even considering this is a private server.
In fact i can say i came over with a group of almost 30 people and there's 7 of us playing right now.

Also end game weapons would still be too hard, i highly doubt people would even go past Legendary.
However if everyone is on pair with the same gears/items/resources , the game does seem more balanced , so perhaps people will actually play it instead of giving up due to how hard things.

By the way , no one is saying "make end game gears/gems all free and easy to obtain in 2 days " or anything like that. There would still be more then plenty to grind over, even if you guys implement some of these changes , at least from my POV.

 

[Gugu]

Imagine, we added all the requested changes. You start the game, and in 1-2 months you enchant armor and weapon for max and insert max gems. All your friends do the same. Now all server have top armor, top weapon and top stuff.
What will you do next? Of course you'll leave the game, as now all the players are at the same level and you have nothing else to reach in game, no more goals.
Would you still be interested in continuing playing? All players will be the same, no differences, no more goals. You'll get bored fast and leave.

But that's where you're wrong tho

Right now, the issues make you lose WAY more players than players that would leave from reaching the top (which would not happen as fast as you think it does)

Look at what was said about honor gemming. Spending 250k honor in a piece of gear only to end up with nothing is what makes people leave. Being unable to compete in any way shape or form because of the lack of supplies for a decent price IS what makes people leave.

ArcheAge has rather high cap that would not be reached as fast as you make it out to be. Look at Trion : They have had more players over the years, they have had way more luckies thanks to alt, yet they lost players due to their terrible management skills, not because players reached the cap.


Honor gems have been made easier in newer patches, and people so far have been very positive about 4.5. This is part of the reason why, because they're trying to fix the issues. You're seeing this the wrong way, thinking that people want an easy game.

What people ask for currently is not an easy game, they want a game that is not ridiculously hard for no apparent reason.

EDIT : You need a balance between work and reward, and right now, the balance is way offset towards work. You put more work in than you get rewarded from, making the game not enjoyable.

 

[maydewrq]

Imagine, we added all the requested changes. You start the game, and in 1-2 months you enchant armor and weapon for max and insert max gems. All your friends do the same. Now all server have top armor, top weapon and top stuff.
What will you do next? Of course you'll leave the game, as now all the players are at the same level and you have nothing else to reach in game, no more goals.
Would you still be interested in continuing playing? All players will be the same, no differences, no more goals. You'll get bored fast and leave.

This is archeage, always room for progression. Esp with things like 3.0 dropping, new castles, more content, new skills, there are plenty of things keeping people interested and hyped. Having things to look forward too keeps people interested. Not asking for a 100% success rate on all the gems, I personally love the fact its only 2 gem slots effected as im looking forward to buying the loyalty gems I need to socket, but it doesnt effect the toughness/resil grind asmuch as I think majority of the outcry was aimed towards. 10/10 server btw


p.s. the reason why legacy servers will never get any new players is because of the gear gap........ if I could join a legacy server and have a helping hand getting even slightly closer to their gs without dropping 2kusd i might actually consider going there and pvping, just saying.

 

[Sparkle]

According to the statistics from RU server, there are planty of full sockets and Legendary items there. There was no socketing success increase for the players there but they could still do it. Why it's hard for you then? What's the difference? This server is just 3 months old but you expect to reach top now when it's still too early for that.