ArcheRage 4.5: "Legends Return" - Pre-Update Official Discussion Thread

[RogueChoi]

What you have suggested is added recipes to the consumables and infusions for erenor and hiram and do not nerf hiram. Lift the erenor nerf.
Which the consumables are infusions.

So what you've asked is for recipes for infusions. Said infusions which are not apart of 4.5s release and come after.

They are not apart of 4.5 so its not up for discussion in a 4.5 related thread.
It comes later

No, I didn't ask for any recipes for Erenor to be added, I only referenced they exist later. I'm not concerned about Erenor and crafting, it already involves crafting fodder. My 'lift the erenor nerf' post was a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT POST.

Anyhow, derail it how you want. That was my suggestion. Find a way to make OLD crafting relevant with the NEW gear system, since people seem concerned about proficiencies becoming worthless after 4.5. Once again though, I don't know why I'm fighting for this, I don't give a shit about content being aged out and only trying to help suggest shit to make the community happy and not implode in 4.5. I'll just go back to my no-pvp'ing and costume collecting which is apparently all I do which is why I'm in bad gear according to someone RMT'ing their stuff off.

 

[sugarrush]

I don't know if this was brought up yet but please do not nerf the healers to the point where they can't even farm or heal themselves.

 

[prego_kamata]

they need to cancel the possibility of acquiring hiram infusions from mobs as a loot ,only craftable infusions
3 to 5 Wind Spirit Leathers,Cloudspun Fabrics ,Nuri Forest Lumbers and Sunridge Ingots per infusion
Upgrade should NOT just be about getting some new gear but an attempt to revive the economy and by doing so revitalizing the server gameplay dynamic + if its expensive to make there will be no need to nerf it

 

[Sjinderson]

they need to cancel the possibility of acquiring hiram infusions from mobs as a loot ,only craftable infusions
3 to 5 Wind Spirit Leathers,Cloudspun Fabrics ,Nuri Forest Lumbers and Sunridge Ingots per infusion
Upgrade should NOT just be about getting some new gear but an attempt to revive the economy and by doing so revitalizing the server gameplay dynamic + if its expensive to make there will be no need to nerf it

Infusions are not in this update. They come later as explained

 

[sugarrush]

Pretty much nobody ever wants change. They want to keep the same armor they had 2 years ago, and don't like that they have to get back on the gear treadmill to stay competitive.

This ^^ so much.

There is no where near the amount crafted gear that used to be up on the AH as before. I would think that anyone who wanted the any of the higher end crafted gear would have already had it by now. The hiram is only going up to celestial so I really don't see what the big deal is. I highly doubt someone in hiram gear is going to be a threat to anyone in the top 100.

 

[prego_kamata]

Infusions are not in this update. They come later as explained

my proposal is to keep the economical principal in the game mate.. if u guys bring a new gear ,bring it in a way that contributes to the existing game mechanics and not in a way that makes them useless . We can all agree that with the release of Hiram the economy hits rock bottom never to recover again ,because there is no need for it in the future . In other words the further patches shift / deviate the game from the original economical concept , all the mats required for upgrading come from loot , the decristalization scrolls come from daily quests or via purchasing the with currency (honor loyalty etc.) which is acquiered via daily events in other words u dont need an economy u need to endlessly farm mobs and attend daily events
as i posted above , upgrade of hiram should happen thru lvl 3(tear 3) leather,fabric ,ingots and lumber in order to have any need of an existing economy concept in the game and all decristalisation scrolls to be acquiered via lvl3 or (tier 3) alchemy ,handcraft and printing mats otherwise crafting of anything but potions and food will be useless

 

[Sjinderson]

And I will say it again. They are not in this version and come later.
So they don't get discussed in an update they are not apart of

 

[Sjinderson]

With 4.5s release there is no infusions, no awakening scrolls, no crystalisation of hiram gear.
There is Hiram T1 which is synthesised by using other hiram pieces

 

[Papatuna]

my proposal is to keep the economical principal in the game mate.. if u guys bring a new gear ,bring it in a way that contributes to the existing game mechanics and not in a way that makes them useless . We can all agree that with the release of Hiram the economy hits rock bottom never to recover again ,because there is no need for it in the future . In other words the further patches shift / deviate the game from the original economical concept , all the mats required for upgrading come from loot , the decristalization scrolls come from daily quests or via purchasing the with currency (honor loyalty etc.) which is acquiered via daily events in other words u dont need an economy u need to endlessly farm mobs and attend daily events
as i posted above , upgrade of hiram should happen thru lvl 3(tear 3) leather,fabric ,ingots and lumber in order to have any need of an existing economy concept in the game and all decristalisation scrolls to be acquiered via lvl3 or (tier 3) alchemy ,handcraft and printing mats otherwise crafting of anything but potions and foot will be useless

With 4.5s release there is no infusions, no awakening scrolls, no crystalisation of hiram gear.
There is Hiram T1 which is synthesised by using other hiram pieces

@Sjinderson If you dont get his undlying point its that not that he is directly talking about infusions he is talking about how you feed hiram and how they should be tied into the crafting system. To fuel the commence. Hiram kills professions and the economy. He is trying to give ideas on how not to kill the economy.

 

[RogueChoi]

With 4.5s release there is no infusions, no awakening scrolls, no crystalisation of hiram gear.
There is Hiram T1 which is synthesised by using other hiram pieces

Then create recipes to craft hiram t1 with associated crafting recipes to use as feeding fodder? Never once in my original post did I say it has to be infusions, that was just an example of something that could be crafted to involve in the Hiram system. And as stated already, when the infusion system does come, it doesn't involve metalworking/weaponcraft/tailoring/etc, so that still doesn't solve the issue I'm trying to curb early with my suggestions.

 

[sugarrush]

My question to @Sjinderson is can something like RougeChoi suggested be done in the upcoming expansion or do we have to wait until 5.0? It would seem like the staff would then have to reinvent the Hiram system from scratch and balance it out not making it too easy or too hard to craft.

 

[Sjinderson]

@Sjinderson If you dont get his undlying point its that not that he is directly talking about infusions he is talking about how you feed hiram and how they should be tied into the crafting system. To fuel the commence. Hiram kills professions and the economy. He is trying to give ideas on how not to kill the economy.

I know what they're talking about. But as I keep saying there is nothing in this update over than the the gear itself.
As such making hiram crafted hasn't fixed proficiencies. Turning hiram into a cheaper version of Erenor because there is no grade requirement for feeding.
This is then entirely undone with that infusions come in 4.7.
The effects are random from a table and not changeable until 4.7 either.
Which this is something that would not be put into the game early.

So now hiram is a gear far too costly to produce that people won't create it when they can create a hundred pieces and not have the 3 stats they want.
Make the recipes cheaper so that they can be mass produced. You're still not ensured to get the 3 stats. You still haven't given proficiencies purpose again.
And if someone was to get all 3 stats now they stop crafting. Why spend more resource when infusions are in the next patch.
The short and brief spike to the economy ends within at most a month.
To which there wasn't much point in taking it away from the mobs drop table.
Adding in infusions/feed with crafting recipes verges on the line of adding from a future patch early which is not something we do. So that is something that comes down a Dev decision.
While with a yes you reduce the cost in levelling it. You still cannot role the stats. Resulting in the gear not being made until the next update when it can be rolled. Only those who want to prepep to getting a T2 with the rolls they want would consider making it.

Hiram as a gear type does not properly function when you make changes to it without the additions and changes that come in the future update.

This leaves us with 4 options. Make changes knowing it'll cause the gear to be never acquited until the next update after.
Leave it as it is.
Or wait for 4.7 and change it then. This has its own list of problems. Namely what to about people who already got t1 pieces.
Lastly disable the gear and have a dedicated discussion just on its complete integrated with 4.7.

That is the dilema with having a system split over 2 patches.

 

[greatjustice]

So now hiram is a gear far too costly to produce that people won't create it when they can create a hundred pieces and not have the 3 stats they want.
Make the recipes cheaper so that they can be mass produced. You're still not ensured to get the 3 stats. You still haven't given proficiencies purpose again.
And if someone was to get all 3 stats now they stop crafting. Why spend more resource when infusions are in the next patch.
The short and brief spike to the economy ends within at most a month.
To which there wasn't much point in taking it away from the mobs drop table.

That makes a lot of sense. That is the way it was with the old crafting system when trying to get Ayanad pieces. You had to build up to be able to get the Ayanad piece which took many tries and there was no guarantee that you would get the piece you wanted when you did get to Ayanad.

 

[prego_kamata]

I know what they're talking about. But as I keep saying there is nothing in this update over than the the gear itself.
As such making hiram crafted hasn't fixed proficiencies. Turning hiram into a cheaper version of Erenor because there is no grade requirement for feeding.
This is then entirely undone with that infusions come in 4.7.
The effects are random from a table and not changeable until 4.7 either.
Which this is something that would not be put into the game early.

So now hiram is a gear far too costly to produce that people won't create it when they can create a hundred pieces and not have the 3 stats they want.
Make the recipes cheaper so that they can be mass produced. You're still not ensured to get the 3 stats. You still haven't given proficiencies purpose again.
And if someone was to get all 3 stats now they stop crafting. Why spend more resource when infusions are in the next patch.
The short and brief spike to the economy ends within at most a month.
To which there wasn't much point in taking it away from the mobs drop table.
Adding in infusions/feed with crafting recipes verges on the line of adding from a future patch early which is not something we do. So that is something that comes down a Dev decision.
While with a yes you reduce the cost in levelling it. You still cannot role the stats. Resulting in the gear not being made until the next update when it can be rolled. Only those who want to prepep to getting a T2 with the rolls they want would consider making it.

Hiram as a gear type does not properly function when you make changes to it without the additions and changes that come in the future update.

This leaves us with 4 options. Make changes knowing it'll cause the gear to be never acquited until the next update after.
Leave it as it is.
Or wait for 4.7 and change it then. This has its own list of problems. Namely what to about people who already got t1 pieces.
Lastly disable the gear and have a dedicated discussion just on its complete integrated with 4.7.

That is the dilema with having a system split over 2 patches.

My advice in that situation will be leav the T1 Hiram as it is in means of how it gets acquired (Via mob looting) and the way it gets upgraded (via feeding with other Hiram gear) This way might be even better - while regrading T 1 Hiram u will get at least 2 or 3 stats that u want for your build +the easy access to (just mob farming) it will be a fast - sort of catch up for the new player , BUT at 4.7 release , make sure that once a peace of gear or weapon its turned in to T2 , Feeding the weapon and gear to be happening only Via materials that are related to the proficiency s that make the game what it is = sandbox .I am intentionally pointing the T3 mats - Wind Spirit Leathers,Cloudspun Fabrics ,Nuri Forest Lumbers and Sunridge Ingots , because even if u put high quantity of them as a requirement , for example 3, 5 or even 7 of each kind for crafting 1 infusion its gonna be way more accessible all players including casual players without having to go into Again - unwanted daily quests - such as working for the territories in order to progress , lets assume im a casual player who has about 2 hours a day and who does not give a damn thing about the so called territories i should have access to means of progress as well no ? thats what equality of opportunity means

 

[Sjinderson]

That makes a lot of sense. That is the way it was with the old crafting system when trying to get Ayanad pieces. You had to build up to be able to get the Ayanad piece which took many tries and there was no guarantee that you would get the piece you wanted when you did get to Ayanad.

Not quite the same.
With Ayands you have only a small number of rolls and can salvage back what you could not sell.
Hiram cannot be salvaged. So once made there is only feed it, use it as feed or destroy.
The number of rolls is very different. With hiram you have 3 effects. The first is base stat so 5 rolls. The next 2 come from a table of 7.
So you're odds are 5*7*6 or 210 to 1 for getting the 3 stats you'd want. And that is just for armour. Weapons have even more possible stats being 12.
So thats 5*12*11. (You take one off for the second roll because you cannot get the same stat twice)
That is a 1 in 660 of getting all 3 stats.

My advice in that situation will be leav the T1 Hiram as it is in means of how it gets acquired (Via mob looting) and the way it gets upgraded (via feeding with other Hiram gear) This way might be even better - while regrading T 1 Hiram u will get at least 2 or 3 stats that u want for your build +the easy access to (just mob farming) it will be a fast - sort of catch up for the new player , BUT at 4.7 release , make sure that once a peace of gear or weapon its turned in to T2 , Feeding the weapon and gear to be happening only Via materials that are related to the proficiency s that make the game what it is = sandbox .I am intentionally pointing the T3 mats - Wind Spirit Leathers,Cloudspun Fabrics ,Nuri Forest Lumbers and Sunridge Ingots , because even if u put high quantity of them as a requirement , for example 3, 5 or even 7 of each kind for crafting 1 infusion its gonna be way more accessible all players including casual players without having to go into Again - unwanted daily quests - such as working for the territories in order to progress , lets assume im a casual player who has about 2 hours a day and who does not give a damn thing about the so called territories i should have access to means of progress as well no ? thats what equality of opportunity means

This is not the place for making suggestions on a future update. I understand the point you are trying to make. But suggesting changes for 4.7 is something you should reserve for a 4.7 discussion

 

[RogueChoi]

This is not the place for making suggestions on a future update. I understand the point you are trying to make. But suggesting changes for 4.7 is something you should reserve for a 4.7 discussion

Okay we'll see you in another 6-7 months to discuss 4.7. Then next year for 5.0 if we're still around.

 

[Sjinderson]

4.7 would in the couple months after 4.5. Not in 6-7. Which has already been said.

 

[RogueChoi]

4.7 would in the couple months after 4.5. Not in 6-7. Which has already been said.

We were also told that 4.0 & 4.5 would come at a faster cycle than usual, and that didn't happen. Though I'm sure it'll be denied in the reply to this.

 

[sugarrush]

Is the trade pack system going to remain the same or is it going to change? I am not sure what expansion it was but there was a drastic increase in the labor costs for making a trade pack.

 

[Sparkle]

Is the trade pack system going to remain the same or is it going to change? I am not sure what expansion it was but there was a drastic increase in the labor costs for making a trade pack.

Trade system we have is a mix of 3.0 and 3.5 trade systems. Both will be kept in our 4.5.