FISHING PROBLEM.
- Thread starter Racream
- Start date
Thank you! I appreciate your willingness to reconsider the issue. There's a real opportunity here to elevate this server even more above retail - sport fishing really is fun and highlights the best of what ArcheAge has to offer. Agree 100% that regular fishing should not be buffed - this should only be for sport fishing on the open ocean.
I think sport fishing should be the default "best" way to earn gold for almost every player. It competes with trade-pack hauling (safe zoned) and Queen's purse farming now in two ratios: Gold-per-labor point and gold-per-hour played. The first step is an analysis:
In one hour of playtime, how much gold can an average player (with average-player equipment, maybe a 7-slot farm hauler?) earn by crafting and hauling trade packs from say ... Gweonid to Two Crowns? The cost of the pack materials needs to subtracted from the total payout. Can we get forum consensus on how much that would be? How much labor would be consumed (assume 0 proficiency)?
In one hour of playtime, how much gold can an average player (with average-player equipment, say a celestial delphinad / t5 weapon) earn by farming Queen's purses? This is my wheelhouse so I can throw some numbers in here. I would estimate 200 purses/hr. of farming. That's 100g in straight gold, plus another 100g? avg. in sellable materials on a good day. The labor cost is 4,000 lp (at 0 proficiency).
Same deal for sport fishing. Right now, how much gold can an average player (avg.-player equipment so a fishing boat) earn in one hour, from departure to final turn in? Since proficiency affects not only labor used, but the speed of fishing and the quality of fish caught we should assume "average" proficiency here, not zero. How much labor would be used in that hour? Can anyone provide reliable numbers for this?
With all those blanks filled in we can make recommendations for how sport fishing should be changed. I would like to see the trade-in values adjusted so that it's roughly 3x better than purse farming or trade pack running in terms of gold-per-hour with comparable lp costs. That reflects the high cost of entry (250 gilda star boat, plus the costs of bait and lures) and the risk, which is the biggest factor.
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Again sport fishing has been addressed many times admins state there will be no buff to gold due to increased bots. This does not mean however things like costs of sport fishing might be lowered to help. Also throw out more idea's folks where you think it would help sport fishing.
Myseria
Member
Myseria
Member
Just imagine a bot sailing around with their 250 gilda boat. Attempting to find a fishing spot, chumming and then having to do the fishing mini game, fighting off pirates and players successfully, knowing when to turn in the boat.
I'm sorry, but this is just a joke.
They will just farm coinpurses.
A bot is incapable of the process that is sport fishing.
I'm sorry, but this is just a joke.
They will just farm coinpurses.
A bot is incapable of the process that is sport fishing.
Have bot everywhere. Is more easiler u see a farm queen purse bot(need lvl 55 and auroria equips), sport fishing u need a 250 gilda, 2 TS, high proficience.
I fish since beta with 30 boat for spot and i never see 1 fishing bot.
You said that you would be different from TRION, that you would listen to your players, but we are living the same thing. You see something far less harmful as if it were the problem of the game.
The private differential does not exist for fishing.
U need a biggest work to make 20g-60g for hour, i make this with 15 minutes SAFE pack and 10 minute farming queen purse, but i don’t like this game.
I fish since beta with 30 boat for spot and i never see 1 fishing bot.
You said that you would be different from TRION, that you would listen to your players, but we are living the same thing. You see something far less harmful as if it were the problem of the game.
The private differential does not exist for fishing.
U need a biggest work to make 20g-60g for hour, i make this with 15 minutes SAFE pack and 10 minute farming queen purse, but i don’t like this game.
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To me, these two posts are contradictory. I'm willing to spend time doing an analysis to make a good recommendation for how to improve sport fishing on this server, but the best fix will almost certainly involve increasing the gold value of sport fish to make it competitive in a gold-per-hour return with purse farming. If that's a step that the dev team is not willing to consider then I won't waste my time.
I feel the same as you.
without a gold buff, the problem can't be fixed. Players will continue to spend their time hauling packs or farming purses instead (boring, anti-social, anti-content activities), because sport fishing won't ever be worth the risk unless it pays significantly more gold per hour with similar labor cost.
Bofur
Member
I disagree, the most cost for fishing is the constant need to buy chum and lures, you can make 80-100g per fishing boat but its an initial investment of around 30-50g in vocation. If vocation cost was decreased, people would lose less if they get attacked, and they would make more gold per trip which intensifies people to get a higher proficiency since the pools last 45 minutes(TIME IS MONEY).
I agree! Lowering the vocation costs is the same thing as a gold buff in practical terms. Other options might be to speed up the fishing mini-game, or add more sport-fishing spots, or make boats faster. End result of all is the same - more gold per hour spent sport-fishing. Adjusting the turn-in values for the fish is probably the easiest variable to change so that's why I suggested it.
To make a good suggestion I still need to know:
In one hour of playtime, how much gold can an average player (with average-player equipment, maybe a 7-slot farm hauler?) earn by crafting and hauling trade packs from say ... Gweonid to Two Crowns? The cost of the pack materials needs to subtracted from the total payout. Can we get forum consensus on how much that would be? How much labor would be consumed (assume 0 proficiency)?
Same deal for sport fishing. Right now, how much gold can an average player (avg.-player equipment so a fishing boat) earn in one hour, from departure to final turn in? Since proficiency affects not only labor used, but the speed of fishing and the quality of fish caught we should assume "average" proficiency here, not zero. How much labor would be used in that hour? Can anyone provide reliable numbers for this?
ZapdosLegendaryPokemon
New Member
im 99% sure that fishing bots would be very easily detected. one gm teleporting around fishing spots would wipe them out and then they have to level to 52 buy a fishing boat re-level fishing. at least make lures like they were way back in the day and not cost vocation. They used to cost gems. Ruby for red sapphire for blue etc. Edit - prices arent even bad for lures/chum on this server. Im still coin purse farming fishing doesnt seem worth it atm.
U fish Here ? Rlly, u don’t know nophing. If u have luck u can make 80g(just sailfish, marlin, sturgeon and 2 37k fish) and spend 32g WITH LUCK u receive a 48g in 45 minutes. U make more this with SAFE things.
If you do not know what you're talking about, you'd better keep quiet.
Queen purse u can farm with 3k gear 150 for a HALF HOUR, for low proeficiences u can make 300 purse for HOUR but this cost 6k labbor, with this u can farm a little 150 fix gold and ANOTHER things(moonpoint, sunpoin...) if have the worst luck of the world u MAKE 150 gold for hour, but have a HIGH chance to make 300g or more. This not need gear, buy anything, just 1 hour.
Resume:
Lacerny - 3k gear, no expenses, give 200-300g or more for hour, labbor here no is problem (480 for hour/ 11520 for day AND have 3 worker compesation for 400 credits = 13520 labbor for day)
Pack i really don’t know about.
That's pretty consistent with what I posted earlier. In my experience farming queen's purses gives, on average, about 200g / hr. at a labor cost of 4,000 lp. I need to know how sport fishing (as it is right now) and pack running compare to those numbers.
sociopathix
Active Member
The screenshot you linked to is discussing a plugin that will fish for you, but does not take care of any of the other steps involved. It's a part of ArcheBuddy (which doesn't exist anymore, so I don't see a problem discussing it here openly). When it still worked, the only thing that this "plugin" took care of is fishing itself, after you've cast and before you have to go get the fish out. I've seen the videos demonstrating what this plugin did. And it did not do everything for you, not even close. And it didn't even do it as efficiently as a player who knows how to fish can. And that's if you could even get it to work considering ArcheBuddy has been shut down for quite a while now and has moved on to something else that doesn't support private servers.
So people who want to bot sport fishing would have to buy it from someone (and who can actually find one that does it all for you, which I have been unable to find, ever) or develop it themselves from scratch.
And even then, it's not going to do it as fast or as efficiently as a player who is there paying attention and using techniques that make fishing faster that are exceedingly difficult to automate.
It also doesn't take into account that bots are very bad at pvp unless they are super geared (which they never are), so making fishing better for players would increase the risk for leaving an unattended bot to do it and actually make any gold. There are much easier ways to run bots that make a lot more money (even if you buffed fishing gold) that are completely automated.
What do bots do? They perform routine tasks that are repetitive and usually don't change very much. Sport fishing is not one of these things. The reason that a plugin existed for sport fishing was because the act of the fishing itself was repetitive and easy to beat with automation. The bot receives the info from the game about what the fish is doing, the bot knows the counter, presses a button, and done. But the bot doesn't find a fishing spot, buy chum in vocation, chum the spot, summon its boat, stand on the boat, do the sport fishing, retrieve the fish, load the fish in its fishing boat, wait until the boat is full, drive the boat back to the fishing stand, turn them all in, and then go back. If you can create a bot with the kind of complexity necessary to do this and it doesn't fail after even 1 hour, I will personally endorse your application to NASA writing AI for space missions.
The likelihood of this being done is astronomically against. And don't you have to actually stand on a boat in order to cast a rod in sport fishing at the first step? I can't even remember now. I know you have to have good line of sight to the water, and I thought you had to be on a firm surface (not swimming) for you to be able to cast in the first place. Which means summoning a boat in the proper location, positioning it to fish from, and standing on it to fish properly (along with going out to chase the fish when it runs away).
ALL OF THAT ASIDE because I'm probably wasting my time with that:
The idea about reducing chum and lure costs is good. Maybe reduce cost of chum for vocation, but also make recipes where you can use fish caught from regular bait fishing as chum instead of making them into dawn lake essence. Probably cooking bench or maybe farmer's workstation. New players who are autofishing to level could sell the fish on the AH instead of making dawn lake essence to sell, and people would buy it to make their own chum.
Lures cost should be reduced in vocation, but could also make handicraft recipes where you can make them. You could build handicrafting proficiency or buy them from the AH from players who make them. Handicraft bench, obviously.
Fishing spot respawn time could be reduced to allow for more fishing spots to be up and ready to fish. Pack makers don't have to deal with the pack crafting station despawning after a certain time; the pack crafting workbenches are up 24/7. Miners don't have to wait very long for ore spots to come back. Both of those can more easily be botted and can be done almost without any stopping at all. If people didn't have to look for a fishing spot for an hour before being able to even start fishing in the first place, you'd probably see more players wanting to do it.
If there is a loot chance table based on proficiency, make high proficiency yield better returns. I can't remember at this point if proficiency determines anything about the kind of fish you catch, but if it is a part of the formula, make high proficiency a stronger part of the calculation by increasing it's weight in the RNG. Make it so high proficiency fishers are more likely to catch higher-end fish, while low proficiency fishers are less likely to catch high end things. This would also work against botters since they tend to be on the lower end of basically any proficiency except mining, commerce, and larceny.
Make sport fishing level 52+. If you can limit sport fishing by itself to level 52, bots would be less likely to do this until they've leveled up some other way, making them less likely to do sport fishing at all. If it can't be done without doing it to autofishing also, I'd say leave it alone. Let new players use autofishing to level.
That's all I have for now. Like I said, I don't mean any disrespect, but it doesn't make much sense to me to hear the reason for not fixing something is bots when I've never heard of or seen evidence of a bot that can actually accomplish it. They can accomplish parts of the process, but the process cannot be fully automated.
I say the same, I never see fishing bot. I really do not know where they played and they saw this fishing bot. I played on Trion servers since beta, all this time in the sea.
Another thing can be solve, make the same the hauler create a fishing TICKET, to fishing boat receive more fishing on tank. But I still think better remove pufferfish and tuna this fish rlly fuck the fishing.